<p>Whatever . . . I thought oldfort’s post back aways was a little - shall we say - “my daughter is doing GREAT” - for the thread in general. Another poster cbreeze gently inquired if his D’s big lunch with the big dog from the “top firm” might be an acquaintance. I inserted a post that yes - lol - connections count. That seems to have let me in for a world of trouble here. Whatever. Calmom’s “insights” seem absurdly obvious to me. My son is quite close to his high school friends at our state U - they ALL seem to get it that internships matter a lot. I find many of her posts off-putting, actually: BOTH HER KIDS HAVE JOBS!!! Wow. That means she must be the expert. Not seeing that from her posts at all. Sorry. As for patsmom - who the heck is that? An internet crony of calmom? Weirdness. I’m out of here. </p>
<p>It certainly felt for awhile like the ganging up was about the H-bomb. Maybe not. Maybe the position I"ve take on other threads about FA? Who knows? Who cares? Not me. Peace. I hope our kids all find gainful employment and survive our obvious pathological over-involvement.</p>
<p>^^^ Maybe posters are simply trying to tell you your posts were a bit unnecessarily mean-spirited. No need to justify why the posts were snarky-- a simple “sorry” would have sufficed.</p>
<p>Thats really unfortunate. But as you said-- whatever.</p>
<p>You made several incorrect assumptions - and rather than say “oops” - which would, IMO, have been fine, you continue to slam those posters? Seems unnecessary and somewhat defensive, but again… no matter.</p>
<p>What’s astonishing to me is sewhappy would PM me after being so snarky to me on this thread to ask for my help on her daughter’s private school choices in NJ. After I got over the shock, I was still helpful and cordial on my PM back to her. My kids went to a private school in NJ all their lives and I have gone to many school events, a side swipe like that, whether intentional or not, would not have been taken kindly. I just re-read her PM and realized her son went to Harvard, which was not why I used it as an example, so my apology there. I do wish her family best of luck in moving to NJ, and hope her D enjoys her new school.</p>
<p>No, my point was that despite the utter lack of family connections, my kids both easily found employment with LARGE and well-known organizations that have HR departments – and, in my son’s case, branch offices in cities throughout the US. (My son has now worked for the same organization in 2 locations on opposite coasts, and over the years has interviewed for positions in at least 6 different cities, either initially or as part of a transfer). </p>
<p>Also, FWIW, I practiced employment law for awhile in the 80’s, working on some discrimination/wrongful termination cases involving very large companies, so I am pretty familiar with HR practices (and the pitfalls they can face if they are not careful about their hiring procedures and decisions).</p>
<p>tom1944 -Good luck to your daughter. I firmly believe that good teachers always find a way to get into the classroom and I sure she will one day. Would she consider going to another state to teach? I’m not familiar with the Praxis II test, as MA uses its own test, but will she have a 7-12 certification? That will help, because many people do not want to teach middle school and often jobs can be found there. Also, many young people are getting jobs by first working as assistant teachers or taking a long term sub job. Also, teaching jobs are so often filled by networking (probably more so than other professions), so tell her to don’t hesitate to send an e-mail to a former teacher, when the time comes, to let him/her know that she is actively seeking employment. My daughter sent a note to so many people and it did help her get her job. Keep the faith.</p>
<p>One other point of clarification (though I think it was probably clear in the first place to most posters) – I definitely have not been referring to only internships. Internships are important, but real world, paid work experience is even more important. I think that the paid jobs is where students pick up the practical skills and track record that employers want to see – whereas internships may be the way that the student gains some familiarity with the particular industry or enterprise where they want to work.</p>
<p>And the reason I’m posting is that I would hope that I can help others who might be reading this thread. For example, sometimes parents don’t want their college age kids working during the school year because they want them to focus on their studies – I think the fact that my kids had to work while in school was a bonus in the end because of the experience gained. </p>
<p>I think one thing that helped my son tremendously is that at one of his jobs (before he earned his degree) he was responsible for screening employment applications – the type of apps that come in from recent college grads. So he saw all the apps and resumes, and he had to make calls and do a screening interview, before passing things on to his higher ups. </p>
<p>When someone says, its all about “connections” or “who you know” – it can be demoralizing for the many students who don’t have those sorts of connections. That’s why I am focusing on the parts that the students can be working on for themselves.</p>
<p>Are you talking about unpaid internships or paid internships? If so, how does the prospective employer know whether or not an internship is paid unless they are familiar with the particular internship?</p>
<p>An intern either needs to be compensated with $$ or be getting school credit. </p>
<p>I, too, just want to share experiences. Neither of my kids got their jobs through connections, but I think there is more than one way to skin a cat. All avenues should be pursued-especially in this economy.</p>
<p>My kid has worked for a lawyer for the last 2 years while in college and, interestingly, has gained an incredible amount of finance knowledge due to the nature of the lawyer’s practice. It’s the type of knowledge that you could not get in a classroom. Just an unexpected benefit. (He also learned how to return shoes to Nordstrom for his boss…)</p>
Or working for a nonprofit or charitable organization. Or perhaps for an international organization, outside the US, where US wage laws would be inapplicable.</p>
<p>sewhappy, I think your post has been misinterpreted. I don’t think your comments were aiming at oldfort in particular, you just meant overall connections matter. I agree. In my opinion, other posters may have overreacted a little.</p>
<p>My S went through the whole IB internship,job recruiting process several years ago, thus I was a little interested in the current process.</p>
<p>"Yeah, exactly. I would say Calmom has less elite envy than almost anyone on these boards. "</p>
<p>I have no elite envy at all. In fact, when I hear that one of DDs friends will be going to an elite school I become alarmed. Are they spending all that money and coming out with something marketable, or are they spending all that money and coming out with a journalism degree?</p>
<p>I am scared because DD is taking the LSAT . Law school? Yikes. All that money, and from what I see here, not too many jobs. </p>
<p>Dogwood- thanks. My D will have plenty of opportunity doing something. It will all be up to her. Of course will a little luck sprinkled in. Being at the right place at the right time always help but making it the right time and the right place will be up to her. We have discussed that she will need to prepare some type of side business for herself besides teaching because with such an uncertain economy it is foolish to depend on any employer long term. She is doing some tutoring now for her college and will most likely set something up on her own- getting her own students and setting her own fee schedule. She will be able to tutor in literature/writing and spanish. She was a very good math student and if need be she could go back and take a few college level math classes and be able to tutor most high school level math students.</p>
<p>Again, I think the idea of the degree being “marketable” is a myth – employers hire people, not degrees. The course of study leading to a particular degree may or may not provide the job skills that the employer is looking for – but the prospective employee will offer a set of qualifications, preferably much more than simply a degree.</p>
<p>I think one mistake that is made in pursuing a more career-oriented degree on the theory that it is “marketable” – is, what happens when the so-called market for that particular field dries up? The individuals who opted for a more broad based undergraduate education may be far more flexible, more resilient – there are plenty of employers who value “smart” and “well educated”. </p>
<p>I don’t have any problem with someone choosing to major in engineering or computer science because that is what appeals to them and a field where they seem to have a natural talent. That’s wonderful. </p>
<p>But the problem is when someone who would be happier studying anthropology chooses engineering with the idea that the latter will lead to a job… and then either it doesn’t, because the person isn’t particularly good at engineering and so graduates with a lackluster academic record and fails to impress prospective employers during interviews — or it does lead to a job, but it’s a job the person detests (and so, of course, doesn’t last long at it). (Employers also really value enthusiasm, since it correlates well to productivity). </p>
<p>Employers look at subsidiary skills – not just the “degree”. People skills, less specialized technical skills, etc. That’s why I think part-time employment during the college years is so important – it rounds out the skill set, particularly for those whose “degree” is not a job qualification. Employers don’t hire literature majors because they want an expert in Shakespeare – they hire literature majors because they value good written communication skills.</p>
<p>There is variation in hiring. In technical areas, the employer lists the degree requirements and a bunch of required and preferred areas. In many cases, you won’t make the cut without the required stuff and some of the preferred stuff.</p>
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<p>Around 2002, I was pretty surprised that the best major for getting hired was accounting. Apparently some legislation (perhaps Sarbanes-Oxley) resulted in a huge demand for accountants and that demand seems to remain. There’s a ton of regulations that have passed recently, and we could get more, that would seem to keep accountants in demand. Who knew? What if the field that you pick explodes with demand?</p>
<p>So yes, parents and students are looking towards the future - what will be marketable and what will I like to do?</p>
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<p>Choosing a technical career does not make you any less flexible or resilient. It means
that your education is focused in one area but that doesn’t alter your character.</p>
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<p>We’ve hired people with zero people skills. Maybe even negative. Brilliant folks, of course,
that you put in a private office somewhere to perform their magic.</p>
<p>A degree requirement doesn’t mean that the degree is a job ticket – it’s just a requirement. It is no more a guarantee of getting a job than a high school diploma is a guarantee of getting admission to Harvard - there are a lot more hurdles to overcome. </p>
<p>MOST jobs have specific requirements. My kids are both employed in jobs that require college degrees, preferably in political science, history, or international relations. Engineers need not apply. That doesn’t mean that their poli sci degrees are more “marketable” than engineering degrees – it means that they majored in an area of interest, and then sought employment in that area. </p>
<p>I’m not an engineer so I don’t know how competitive hiring in that field is these days – but its a pretty safe bet that if a job requires an engineering degree, then all of the applicants for that job will have the requisite degree. When companies show up to schools to interview, the usually interview many more applicants than they actually hire. Typically they end up hiring the best of the applicants – so an engineering grad with a C+ average is going to be at a disadvantage when competing against classmates with A averages.</p>
<p>I mean – I’ve got a law degree. It makes me qualified, it doesn’t make me marketable. </p>
<p>One other problem when you consider the “market” for engineers and computer scientists is that, unfortunately, it has become an international market. So a significant number of jobs are filled through outsourcing overseas, rather than direct hiring. </p>
<p>If you are going to assess supposed “marketability” of an educational qualification, you have to look at the whole market. My kids with their poli sci degrees don’t have to worry about their jobs being outsourced – it’s just never going to happen. So their “market” is one that is more restricted on the employer’s end – their employers have to find people who live in the US, who have excellent written and oral English language communication skills, and who can legally work in the US. On the other hand, colleges graduate a lot of poli sci majors, so there certainly is no shortage of US residents who can fill the demand. </p>
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<p>Yes, that’s YOU and YOUR company. My kids have jobs that require people skills coming out of the wazoo – its a different job, so it has different skills. Their jobs require working with and interacting with people on a daily basis – not stuff that can be done in a back office. And it IS a skill. (Try Googling the phrase “excellent interpersonal skills” – it is something that my d’s employer asked for when they posted the job, and Google comes up with more than 5 million results for that exact phrase – it shows up a LOT on job listings.)</p>