<p>
</p>
<p>I think we mostly agree.</p>
<p>Having said that, if I can get a Fuji apple that was grown on a local organic farm versus a regular Fuji apple that came from the west coast, I will always choose the local option. That doesn’t mean I am a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist, though, or that I “buy into” an entire campaign of misinformation without looking below the surface.</p>
<p>I live two miles down the road from an apple orchard. All fall, I go there and pay more to eat apples picked that day. So, Im all for that. Their honeycrisp apples are to die for. I have no idea if they are “organic” or not. I snow shoe on the trails around the orchards sometimes. It looks organic on a sunny morning after a 12 inch snowfall…</p>
<p>The rest of the year, I don’t see any reason to pay double for the so-called organic apples in the grocery store than don’t look any better or come from any closer than the regular versions for 99 cents a pound. I shop at a VERY high volume grocery store. The produce is almost always excellent because they are turning it over so quickly. At various points during the year, the apples could come from New York or Washington or New Zealand.</p>
<p>Six foods that increase/decrease cancer risk.
<a href=“http://www.pcrm.org/media/news/six-dietary-guidelines-for-cancer-prevention”>http://www.pcrm.org/media/news/six-dietary-guidelines-for-cancer-prevention</a></p>
<p>emeraldkitty:</p>
<p>That is exactly the kind of fake health scare stuff that makes it so hard for people to eat well. Despite the scientific sounding name, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is a vegan diet promotion group. Think about this statement in their “report”:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Making recommendations to people without evidence is precisely the problem with the current state of affairs in nutrition. Honestly, we would all be better off if nobody had told us what we should eat, since more often then not, what they tell us is wrong.</p>
<p>I’m pretty familiar with the food cancer research and most of the claims in that “report” are pure nonsense. There’s just no evidence to support those claims. It’s all comes from population studies with self reported food intakes, a type of research that cannot determine causation. For example, you can show that heart disease increases with the number of TV in a household. But, that is a far cry from claiming that TV ownership causes heart disease.</p>
<p>The comparison to tobacco is completely misleading. Yes, the correlation between tobacco and lung cancer came from population studies (you can’t do a double-blind control study with smoking), but the association between smoking and lung cancer was statistically off the charts. Massive correlation. And, it was progressive. Higher smoking rates, more lung cancer. And, it worked in both directions. Quit smoking, lung cancer rates dropped. So, you can’t “prove” that smoking causes lung cancer, but this was no “one study on rats suggested…” type stuff. It was crystal clear.</p>
<p>None of the food/cancer studies are crystal clear. They show very small correlations and very inconsistent results with various studies. Nothing is crystal clear in nutrition research. About the closest I’ve seen to crystal clear and repeatable every time is that reducing carb/sugar intake reduces triglycerides in the blood. Beyond that, I can’t think of a single thing where there are inconsistent results among studies.</p>
<p>In 2002 there were 77 substances that were on the national list of allowed substances in organic food</p>
<p>Today that list is up to 250 and counting.</p>
<p>The demand for organic food means big money. Big money has brought out the heavy hitters who have been able to influence the USDA by infiltrating the boArd that advises the USDA on the allowable substances list. </p>
<p><a href=“http://farmwars.info/?p=4913”>http://farmwars.info/?p=4913</a></p>
<p>Here is an interesting article talking about the different organic terms.</p>
<p>Want some organic honey? Don’t count on the USDA. They don’t have regulations for it. But it can be certified…</p>
<p>It’s all so …confusing. And that’s my point. </p>
<p><a href=“USDA Organic Honey – What Does It Mean? | Brookfield Farm Bees & Honey Blog”>http://brookfieldfarmhoney.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/01/03/usda-organic-honey-what-does-it-mean/</a></p>
<p>interesteddad - I’m with you on crazy prices. I saw some organically grown garlic at a farmer’s market that was being sold for $5 a head! I’ve grown garlic myself and it’s pretty damn easy. And a farmer told me once that the difference between organic methods and conventional ones is getting smaller. Organic farmers have more tools and don’t “do nothing” as in the past, and conventional farmers are hemmed in by OSHA and EPA regulations (if you’re spraying, your guy has to be in the closed cab of a vehicle with all sorts of other regulations) that make them do less. This is only true for small family farms though. The big ags are another story.</p>
<p>Another reason to care about overuse of pesticides and herbicides–the loss of bees. Without them, we’re pretty much screwed.</p>
<p><a href=“Opinion | Bees and Colony Collapse - The New York Times”>Opinion | Bees and Colony Collapse - The New York Times;
<p>And no, I don’t think concern about the continued existence of bees is junk science.</p>
<p>I buy organic for certain fruits and vegetables. Do I believe organic produce is perfectly “clean” of things I don’t want in my body? No. But I think it is “cleaner” than regular produce in most circumstance. When you look at regular fruit it looks absolutely perfect - not a mark on it, the colors are vivid and uniform and there is a sheen to it as if each piece has been polished by hand. If you own fruit trees or have a nearby local orchard you know this is not the natural state of fruit. Organic produce often does not look nearly as appealing as regular, but I can definitely taste the difference. </p>
<p>I also just like to support the organic movement. I think its a better direction to be heading towards. There clearly is a huge market for cleaner food. </p>
<p>I don’t seek out organic food but I do strongly support locally-sourced food - not because I think it tastes a lot better (some of it does), not because I think it’s “greener” (although it may be), but mainly because I like to support local farmers. Seems to me that as time goes by, there are fewer small farmers and more huge factory farms. </p>
<p>Not that factory farming is all bad, either. However, when it’s possible, I prefer to support the little guy. Call it sentimental, I guess, but I come from a long line of dirt farmers.</p>
<p>I buy apples from a local orchardist who uses organic practices, but can’t bear the costs of organic certification because he wouldn’t be able to sell his apples at a competitive price. He does make organic cider but buys his apples from another orchard–he can afford to do this do because Whole Foods carries his cider. </p>
<p>My friend says that he uses 10x less pesticide than he did years ago for his conventional apples. He practices integrated pest management–which is a highly regulated practice (by the state of MA) that uses a variety of techniques to eliminate pests. The use of pesticides is limited and often a last resort. They aren’t used at all like they were in the past.
I feel comfortable buying his apples and apple products–I’ve known this man and his family for 25 years. They aren’t an evil corporation looking to just make money. This is a guy who cares about his land and growing apples. He could retire and turn his property over to a developer and retire and be extremely comfortable. </p>
<p>This could very well be the situation surrounding other produce but it takes more time and digging than I’ve got to
uncover this information, which is why I’m sometimes willing to take shortcuts by buying produce that is certified organic.</p>
<p>I agree with all of that, Bromfield. Yes, I would definitely buy from that farmer. I friend of mine runs an apple orchard and follows similar methods. (Unfortunately in a different state so not local to me.) I try as much as possible to buy local, and/or from small farmers, but when I can’t I usually compromise with the somewhat compromised but still better than nothing certified organic.</p>
<p>I live in a small city in a relatively rural area so we are surrounded by small farmers and poultry growers (yes, they are called that) who raise poultry for Tyson and the like. I’m happy to buy almost anything produced by the small farmers - I don’t believe any of it is certified organic. The poultry I will take a pass on. </p>
<p>I think the majority of us posting here that do purchase organic products think the way Bromfield does. No one is buying organic simply because it’s organic. </p>
<p>sorry, deleted</p>