Is Princeton even worth a visit for us?

College Search & Lists
41

Well, I wasn’t a stereotypical Princeton kid and I certainly found my people there. I think it’s a big enough school with a high-enough bar for entry that you’ll find people of all types there.

Given your experience with Swarthmore, I’d suggest visiting Princeton (if only to rule it out, and also because it’s not super far away and is a uniquely pretty place.)

I might go in a bit of a different direction from others on this thread. How likely is she to get into W&M? If the answer is very (and someone else will have a better sense of this than I do), I see no harm in not over-emphasizing safety schools at this point. I think it’s easy to get overwhelmed with the options.

That said, from my research, here are some additional options to consider:

  1. +1 to the trio of schools around MSP:
    –St. Olaf (not an easy drive from Virginia but it would be a fairly safe bet).
    –Macalester (as others said, this one rings a lot of bells. it’s smaller than her preferred size BUT it’s in a city with a bunch of other colleges and there are options to do research at University of Minnesota, do internships for credit, etc.)
    –Carleton: the reachiest and maybe most overtly nerdy of the three. Probably has more in common with Swarthmore but a kinder/gentler version?

  1. Also Brandeis, which has grad students, is located in suburban Boston near a bunch of other schools, and is squarely in the nerdy/intellectual/quirky cultural sphere without being quite as hard-charging as Hopkins. We’d heard bad things about the campus and were pleasantly surprised. They have a relatively high acceptance rate vis-a-vis the stats of their typical student.

  2. People tend to lump Case Western Reserve and U Rochester into a similar bucket. I haven’t visited either school; my kid is applying to both sight unseen. But these might also be worthy alternatives to explore. That said…

…is she really more likely to get into CWR than William and Mary? And would she really like it more? My guess would be no.

So back to your original question: does she have a safety that she likes? If not, find that. And if her chances at William and Mary are overwhelmingly strong, I think it’s okay to then home in on a few additional options, even super reachy ones (among the Ivies, I guess I’d second the recommendations of Yale and Brown, but Princeton isn’t the country club it used to be. Go see it! The bio buildings are especially impressive. :wink:

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42

Yes, Carleton actually has two strikes–not “midsized”, and not really what most would consider to be a “decent driving distance” from Northern Virginia.

I think as often happens, the basic issue here is probably every practical option for more Likelies or Targets is going to have one or more such strikes against it. Possible outcomes from that position include:

(1) The OP’s daughter makes peace with her in-state Likelies and Targets being her only such options; or

(2) The OP’s daughter figures out what she would be more or less willing to compromise about.

I think a lot of us have implicitly leapt ahead to that second possibility, and are laying out different possible compromises. And once you are doing that, it becomes very personal. So, yes, two strikes against Carleton, but otherwise fits things like “intellectual”, “very smart”, “quirky”, “intellectually curious about everything but not socially savvy”, “intellectual/nerdy”, [negative on] “stress culture”, [negative on] “big and sterile”, and just “maybe loved” William & Mary.

More subtly, I can empathize with sentiments like, “She’s almost rather go to community college for 2 years then transfer than go to JMU or GMU,” and “it just seems so crazy that she’s worked so hard, grueling magnet school, internships, etc. to go to the first in state school she looked at.” Again, objectively, it is enviable to live in a state with such great options. But emotionally, if you have really put a lot of effort into a lot of things, it makes sense to want some options that feel special.

And I think for some kids at least, Carleton feels very special. Often for kids like the OP’s kid, in fact. And even if this kid in fact ended up picking William & Mary over a Carleton, it might still be nice to have that be their choice, and not something that happens by default.

But for sure the OP (or more properly her daughter) could end up saying that Carleton just involves too many compromises. She could in fact conclude that about every option we are offering for consideration, and end up back in (1).

And in fact any guidance the OP wants to give us on all this could be helpful. Still, personally, I always find it interesting to hear about options someone else thinks might be worth me considering, even if I ultimately find them unsuitable.

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43

I agree that Miami Ohio is well regarded…but it’s not quirky nor nerdy, IMO it’s the opposite, so maybe not a great fit for OP. I’m not saying one can’t find nerdy and/or quirky students there, but that is not the overall vibe. Perhaps OP could visit if time allows.

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44

I also mentioned Miami (Ohio) as an option, but I actually agree with this vibe observation too. For what it is worth, I think it tends to have more overlap in my circles with kids who also like, say, Wake Forest.

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45

Good idea. Since OP said “We’re trying to stay in decent driving distance to northern VA”, maybe add University of Maryland to that target list?

They have a great bio/neuro major, and their honors/scholars programs are chock full of really smart kids with diverse interests.

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46

UMD is not mid-sized tho

47

True, but it’s comparable in size to the other suggested schools (Rutgers is larger). And the discussion was about their honors colleges, which are all significantly smaller than the university as a whole.

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48

It will be interesting to see if the OP has any thoughts on which, if any, of these compromises sounds promising for her daughter. Both chasing honors programs and LACs, for example, have plausible appeal, and some kids might like some options for both. But I think some kids end up strongly preferring one or the other, and it may depend on exactly the nature of the honors program, and so on.

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49

I think this and the rest of NiceUnparticularMan‘s post was very well put. What a student thinks they want at the start of their junior year of HS often changes by end of senior year. Imo navigating that path involves learning both more about what they think they like and more about what they think they don’t. Learning to challenge one’s own preconceptions can be a positive lesson for a teenager.

As an anecdote, one of our kids thought they wanted to study only one or two subjects in college, so applied to a school in the UK where that type of focus is the norm. They ended up spending almost as much time on that one school as all the US schools combined, mostly because the standardized test for that program was so different than those here, so involved a lot of self-study. During the process our kid came to realize they would miss some of the curricular exploration encouraged by most US schools, plus they learned academic material beyond what their HS taught. So we think it was time well spent even though we always doubted they would end up in the UK. They ended up choosing a college with considerable distribution requirements over another we initially thought they would prefer with almost none, so it was quite the reversal. College searches and applications can be surprisingly rewarding if viewed as more than a stressful means to an end; the self-discovery journey itself can be part of the reward.

Apologies for the digression if not of interest. I do agree the focus of the conversation should be on attributes listed by OP. But I also agree there are sometimes pattens of desired attributes that suggest suspending one or more individual ones might be worth entertaining.

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50

I think this is a really good point: even if OP’s daughter ends up at W&M, it might feel very different for her if she chooses it over other options that she’s almost as excited about.

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51

Forgot to mention a couple of additional schools. We were particularly impressed with Oberlin when we visited last February and I really think it’s worth a look. Beautiful drive. Adorable small college town. The students we met on our tour were intellectual, quirky, driven. I think this school would likely be a match for your daughter.

If you hit up Oberlin, you can check out Case Western Reserve, Pitt, the College of Wooster, and maybe Kenyon as well. Wooster seemed to have a lot going on in the biological sciences space and they require students to do independent research. I think for your daughter it could be a likely. No idea if it would feel too small but the campus is lovely.

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52

TCNJ might work as a likely. It’s a nice school and meets the size criteria.

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53

Trying to reply to a variety of posts here:

I think we’ve realized proximity is important. 5+ hours from NoVA is just not worth it for her. She hasn’t looked at Georgetown but it’s a possibility. She gets a lot of recruiting info from U Chicago but it’s too far. We haven’t explored honors colleges in larger schools other than GMU but she’d be open to it. Right now she’s planning on an ED 1 (possibly W&M, or possibly a big reach) and an ED 2, but doesn’t have the rest of her options filled out if the ED’s don’t work out.

People who know her often balk when I say she’s interested in W&M, almost like they expect her to go to Harvard or Yale because she’s always been a “stand out”. However, she has some problems and challenges that aren’t apparent to the rest of the world and above all we want her to feel happy, included, and inspired so she can reach her full potential, even if that means going to a school people don’t see as “impressive.”

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54

Kudos to having the exact right attitude. Don’t worry about anyone else’s comments. Your D’s success and happiness are all that matters. If W&M is the best fit, rest assured that college can get your D anywhere she wants to go in life.
All best wishes as your D moves through the process.

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55

I think having constraints during this process can be so helpful. Otherwise it’s easy to just keep adding schools to the list (ask me how I know…) and suddently you’re in California wondering if you should schedule last-minute trips to Maryland and Delaware (nope nope nope…)

Stick to your path. And count yourself lucky that your girl is so enamored of the local state school, and that it is such a gem. (do go see Princeton though! it’s so pretty this time of year…)

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56

First I want to congratulate your daughter- she is clearly a strong student and I wish her luck.

Next- try to ignore the mailings from reach schools because they don’t really mean much (this is true for everybody). These schools have single digit acceptance rates and most who apply have truly outstanding applications. Of course if she wants to apply to these schools, she should!

I think you hit the jackpot with your in state options. Your daughter is lucky.

Is Pitt too far? I think your daughter will be quite impressed.

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57

Don’t know anything about Pitt; haven’t looked. Is this the U of Pittsburgh?

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58

Yes.

59

Adding that I think we’ll go ahead and look at Princeton. Even if it’s just a mother/daughter getaway. Why not, I say. But I do wish I could build a robust list of solid matches and safeties for if this doesn’t go as planned. Gosh, there is no manual for this!

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60

Yes, and it is about 4.5 hours drive from NoVa (so closer than a lot realize, but also on the outer limits of what you suggested).

It has long been strong for Life Sciences and the associated medical system, UPMC, is considered very good, which is part of why so much research is happening there. It also has an Honors program and sometimes offers merit.

Pittsburgh the city itself surprises many first time visitors. It is more interesting, quirky, and actually physically beautiful than many expect. Pitt is right in the middle of the city, with lots to do nearby.

Of course if it is too far, that’s fine. But I think a lot of people enjoy visiting even if they don’t end up applying. And many do make room on their lists after a visit.

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