<p>They live in Tampa. COL isnt terribly high there and there is no state tax in FL. They seem to have a high phone/internet/cable bill ($175/mo). Maybe could cut back there. And they are putting the max in retirement savings, so obviously they are saving. If they are spending a lot in insruance and gas, they probably have several cars. I would not classify these people as poor any more than I would classify a house built in, say, 1968 as an “old house”. Houses built before WWII are perhaps old houses.</p>
<p>Also- how is one son paying $10k a year in tuition and the other paying $5k? That doesn’t make sense unless one son is only going to school half time. </p>
<p>And $10k a year doesn’t make sense at all at a CC. Not one bit.</p>
<p>Just because this article bugged me so much, I did some poking around. She’s a regular writer. Recently she’s also written articles about: touring the biosphere in Arizona (oh? a vacation?), multiple articles about the latest and greatest diet foods, and her husband has thousands of comic books and cards.</p>
<p>Doesn’t sound “poor” to me.</p>
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<p>In the labor market, wouldn’t you expect unpleasant or unsafe jobs to pay some sort of premium over other jobs? Of course, there could be a lot of other factors determining pay levels, like skill levels needed to do the job, etc…</p>
<p>Vance Packard, in his 1959 book The Status Seekers did mention that, even back then, there were many low paid white collar jobs (lower paid than blue collar jobs with more physical labor).</p>
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<p>The funny thing is, the $183,000 at the top of the bubble price of the house is not huge compared to houses in some parts of the country (even after the real estate bubble deflation) – and many people would consider a house that costs only 1.83 times their annual pay to be a bargain.</p>
<p>Oldfort, i found your reply very interesting. i grew up in house that often had money problems and my parents had the opposite view towards spending money on food! They thought it was mostly a waste of money and would buy cheap stuff. and my mom often said how it was such a waste of money, since once it is eaten it is gone!</p>
<p>"$70 at our local farmer’s market during the summer will get you half a flat of strawberries, an enormous amount of stone fruit, a few baskets of raspberries and blueberries, plenty of grapes, pounds of tomatoes (some heritage), fresh corn, greens, broccoli…in short, enough produce to last six people a week, with fruit available and eaten with all three meals and snacks. "</p>
<p>Can you share how you break that down? I can see that, but I can also see a lot of waste or lost meals because I can’t figure out how to transform that into meals within a week or two.</p>
<p>FWIW, I grow veg year round, subscribe to a CSA, and shop our farmers market in N. Cal. D is only here a few weeks a year, and doesn’t eat red meat, but really can’t afford (low carb diet wise) the carbs of a “simple vegetarian” diet.</p>
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<p>One son has a job, which is why parents only have to kick in $5K for him. But agree that the CC tuition number doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>This family does seem to be living “paycheck to paycheck” as notrichenough put it, but the total FAFSA EFC for a household like this would typically be something in the region of double the $15K they’re currently spending on CC expenses, right? I really don’t see how people are expected to afford such a large fraction of income.</p>
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It’s supposed to be savings-income-future income (loans). It isn’t generally expected that people can suddenly lop off 30% of their income for tuition/fees.</p>
<p>I think the family is doing reasonably. Not terrifically well, but better than most in their bracket. They live in a nice house, and are doing what they can so that they have the flexibility to move in the future if necessary. Like many families in that category, they bought the best home they could afford. Like most families, they are going to have a tough go paying college expenses but with their kids living at home for the first two years of school and living in a state where the cost of the state schools is relatively low, they’ll be able to help get the kids through college comfortably. Congrats to them.</p>
<p>On the subject of the food budget our family runs between $1000 to $1200 most of the year. For us, that category includes all groceries, cleaning products, and paper goods. There are three of us at home and one away at college.</p>
<p>Starbucks, restaurant meals, game/show tickets, hotels etc., all fall under entertainment. That category ranges $300-$600 depending on how much travel we are doing for sports or to visit D at school. We eat very few meals out when we are not traveling. Less than once a month to a restaurant with wait staff. We are more likely to join friends at Panera.</p>
<p>I’ve kept a spreadsheet for over a decade!</p>
<p>Where I live in NY I would be thrilled if I could keep my monthly food bill down to $1000. Costs at the grocery are crazy here in NY–and zoosermom, I could have written your first post on this thread, down to the 13yo eating 2 dinners a day and myself being a vegetarian. If I could get to a bulk store (Costco, etc) it still wouldn’t make sense in a NY apt, nowhere to store the extra items. Factor in allergies and health issues when meal planning drives the food bill up even more. </p>
<p>I think the family in the article is doing well, making smart choices (saving, extra money towards the mortgage) without living a spartan life. I understand what the author is saying though, they don’t have much in expendable income.</p>
<p>I went back and re-read the original article. The author says she feels poor even though they’re making all this money. But when you read, it’s clear that she feels poor because they have a home that is upside-down on the mortgage and their neighborhood has deteriorated in the wake of the Florida housing bubble.</p>
<p>I would ask the question: does she really want to stay in that neighborhood? If yes, she needs to talk to her bank about modifying the mortgage. If no, it’s time to sell the house and eat the loss.</p>
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<p>shrinkrap, dunno how I can break it down–it just struck me that what dstark says he spends just for fruit for 3 people is what I pay for fruit during a typical week in the summer. When I buy fruit it’s to cover two teenaged girls who adore summer stone fruit, two middle aged adults (only one total fruit fiend there) and two senior citizens who now refuse to buy non-farmers-market strawberries because the ones I buy are so incredible. The fruit is primarily for snacking and lunches, though a basket or two of the berries make their way into Eton Mess (sliced strawberries mixed with whipped cream and chopped meringue…oh be still my heart, it’s almost strawberry season :)). We have steamed or roasted broccoli a couple times a week with dinner. Tomatoes with a lot of things, be it sandwiches or caprese salad (sliced fresh mozz, tomatoes, chopped basil) or a few handfuls of cherry tomatoes in a lunch. Salad with 2-3 dinners. We cook dinner about 5 times a week, mostly vegetarian. The author of the originally linked piece might have very different tastes, not to mention that she probably can’t get those great strawberries that we so love here in SoCal. </p>
<p>Some waste, but not a huge amount. We make menus for the week, and get shopping lists from that (and then I make an impulse buy because the eggplants look gorgeous and because I love the smell of fresh mint). </p>
<p>When stone fruit comes fully into season, it’s about $2-3 a lb at the farmer’s market from the growers that I prefer. A half-flat of strawberries (6 baskets) is IIRC $15-18. These prices are going to have some of y’all shaking your heads at my profligacy 
and have others thinking they’re a bargain. Again, just goes to show that prices and preferences all range widely. So if anyone is going to try to deconstruct my financial habits and mistakes from this snippet, repeat after me: what works for one person doesn’t work for everyone. Your mileage may vary. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. 
;)</p>
<p>I have a picky elderly parent who has eating issues, so I do have to buy my fruit and veggies from a farmers market and all of us enjoy the difference in quality. Still, my food bill is my “swing” expense where I cut way down if other expenses come up.</p>
<p>As for the OP’s trying to refinance, forget it. Unless your credit is shot and you are about to go under, the banks will not give up a good hold they have. I know too many people who have tried and failed. Why should the bank give them a break? Not fair but the way it goes. All they can do is wait until they can sell and then move to a place that is less expensive on a monthly outgo basis. That’s where we are, but it would be incredibly difficult for us to get out of our house these days, as they banks are not giving jumbo mortgages. My neighbor is renting out her house after trying to sell for two years. She did get offers but the buyers could not get mortgages and she was unwilling to work out a “do it yourself” piecemeal mortgage which is what you have to do these days if you are selling a house for more than banks will give a mortgage for. Risky and you have to know what you are doing. Both my neighbor and brother are renting out their house, and that has its risks and headaches too. My neighbors output pipe broke, the renters had to vacate the house until repairs were completed, so they recently lost two months of rent as a result. They so want to get rid of the house that they are putting together self mortgage scenarios for when they try to sell again in a year or two.</p>
<p>Vandalism sounds like a huge problem in Tampa. Earlier this year the home of Derek Jeter & his neighbor were vandalized also.
That would be beyond frustrating.</p>
<p>The older I get, the more I am placing a priority on organic foods, which in the midwest are expensive year round. During the summer, farmer’s market prices are very reasonable.</p>
<p>D2 has adopted a ‘clean eating’ lifestyle and I applaud her for that. We’ve talked about starting our first vegetable garden this year, but I said it had to be in raised boxes, which will add an expense. I have no idea what are the most cost-saving crops to raise… any ideas on how to get started on this? I won’t raise a cost-saving crop if it’s something we won’t eat, though. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, I grew up in Texas where there was almost always something growing in my dad’s garden… three full growing seasons. In the midwest, is it really worth it to try to garden for five months, where you’re only getting produce for about four of that?</p>
<p>teri, at my house we grow basil, tomatoes (various different kinds), cucumbers, cilantro, and a few other things that escape me right now. </p>
<p>What we do is we plant them all in little plastic cups and have them all out on a table set up by a large window. This way we can start growing them around March. My dad rotates them a few times a week (from front to back to make sure that they’re all getting good sunlight). </p>
<p>It’s worth it for the spices. Spices are so darn expensive fresh and they’re so much better out of your garden. When things start sprouting, we easily get enough to feed ourselves. Plus, we’ve learned to make recipes that use primarily those ingredients (like salsa for example) and that makes them stretch even further. </p>
<p>IMO, yes, it’s worth it.</p>
<p>I’ve never tracked our food budget and we only buy junk food (a bag of chips) several times a year. We mainly eat fruits, vegetables, fish, chicken and red meat (very occasionally) and I always buy the highest quality. It never occurs to me that we would eat ourselves to the poor house because I am under 100 lbs and my H is around 135. We are the same weight as when we married 36 years ago. H is an exercise addict (20 marathons) and consumes a lot of food.</p>