At the end of the day it is a numbers game and there are lots of worthy students that are going to be passed over. That doesn’t mean they did something wrong or were lacking in some way - it’s just that they didn’t happen to meet some institutional priority. Unhooked students - regardless of how accomplished - have a very tough road. It is made even more difficult if they happen to come from an area of the country that is over represented.
6 Likes
I would not presume a denied student is less qualified just like I would not presume an accepted student is less qualified.
I help my students with essays and I show them the common data set. If they are hitting the mark on what the data from that school shows, and it’s a reasonably selective school, they still need to realize there are more applicants in that range than there are spots.
People should not be thinking I had a 4.0 and a 1500 and got denied so the kid with a 3.9 and a 1410 who got in is less deserving.
9 Likes
I think there are very few LoRs that say something like, “This is the best student I’ve seen in my 25 years of teaching”
Most LoRs are middle of the road…just like many applications.
The middle of the road at a highly selective school might boast of higher GPAs and standardized tests…but will have the same “doesn’t stick out as a ‘must have student’*” - just like the middle of the road at less selective schools.
*I’m paraphrasing something Jeff Selingo talked about when sitting in at Emory admission work. He thought they were repeating applications because so many apps had awesome GPAs, test scores, very little difference in ECs, etc…they all sounded the same.
2 Likes
I agree with you. I was reacting more to the several posts that seemed to allude that trying to have admissions on merits alone would somehow mean less personality or interesting class. There are plenty of high stats kids to go around and they are all interesting in some way. They all add different perspectives- it has nothing to do with what instrument they play.
3 Likes
Of course creativity is needed. And I attest to the fact that emotional intelligence can take someone far - just ask my husband who is much, much more successful than our MIT/Ivy friends (he attended a regional public that is never mentioned here). At the same time, I have to point out that academic accomplishment and creativity aren’t mutually exclusive. Nor do I think that true creativity (apart from visible achievement in the arts) and emotional intelligence can be discerned through a college application - whether or not the review is holistic.
5 Likes
This.
Or if your kid somehow got in to an elite school they must have had private tutors for years, paid someone to package them with fake ECs, taken the SAT 10times, or have a secret hook. Sigh.
The system is far from perfect but there ARE a large concentration of extremely bright kids in many schools and many of them also have additional accomplishments in arts or debate. Just because some kids at elites do not have top scores or got in because of some of this rigging or hooks is not a valid reason to label every kid who is there as somehow undeserving or a cheater.
7 Likes
Hmmm. Don’t you think it’s a little odd that Harvard only admitted 1 student from this school in 25 years? When it routinely admits multiple students each year from certain of its “feeder” schools? I thought the whole point of Harvard’s “holistic” admissions process was that it would identify leadership potential from students of many different backgrounds, not just from rich prep schools. Unless, I suppose, kids from this school just don’t have what it takes (except for the one friend of your S21, of course.)
2 Likes
But “merit alone” meaning only quantitative measurements means the 1500 kid gets in over the 1410 kid. Maybe the 1500 kid is more accomplished, but really it’s only a couple of questions. What if the 1500 kid isn’t remarkable in terms of being well rounded or community service and the 1410 kid is?
I am not saying a 1500 or even 1600 kid must be an academic drone devoid of any other interests. I’m saying test scores alone are not the best indicator of academic or college success.
Most high achieving kids get into great schools even if they aren’t T20. FSU early decisions came out and there were a lot of deferrals. I was surprised by a few high achieving kids who were deferred, but I was not surprised by any of the kids who were accepted. There was no, “ How did THAT kid get in?”
5 Likes
All snark aside, I think those tippy top schools are a different story. The problem isn’t some undeserving kid getting in over kids who rocked the SAT. It is the private counselor, and legacy, and connections. Almost all the kids who apply there have outstanding academic records.
1 Like
The sterotypes are just too funny-thank goodness the rest of the world manages to somehow survive despite using academic merit based admission. How do those hundreds of other countries manage with the losers they must produce???
4 Likes
Totally off topic, but this whole emotional intelligence bit is interesting to me - reminds me of the show Young Sheldon - in episode where his twin sister turns out to be emotionally much more intelligent than him. His character was probably the epitome of brilliant and lacked emotional intelligence but I don’t think anyone can say he wasn’t interesting! Haha!
1 Like
There aren’t any schools like that in this country, though. Zero. And, frankly, a 1410 kid isn’t going to get into a super elite school in most cases - not because they are being passed over by the 1500 kid, but because odds are tiny and a 1410 is way below the typical test range for those schools. Now if they are a recruited athlete, an Olympian or dad can donate a building that’s a different story.
3 Likes
IB and Consulting might be a bit different from top quant firms that like to begin to make themselves known to potential future hires by sponsoring high school math and programming competitions.
These companies are relatively small, and can afford to hire the best of the best. A quick look at some of their LinkedIn profiles brings up a pretty stark picture:
@hebegebe can help keep me honest
3 Likes
I agree. But we are at a time when getting into UF is super competitive. It’s not just about schools who get way more truly in dribble applications than they can manage.
2 Likes
So here’s the thing. The kid getting “passed over” will do just fine. If Harvard passes, Georgetown won’t. Or Duke, or whatever.
“Cream rises to the top”. If the kid is All That, they will be noticed/rewarded/whatever, even from a so-called lesser school.
10 Likes
I think the only reason people suggest that is it’s clear cut, objective and opaque. The holistic considerations are all very subjective - what extracurricular ranks higher than another’s? How many hours they devote, how accomplished they are in their extracurriculars, how much they impact their teammates? The answers to those are going to be different depending on who is reviewing the application. Whereas looking at clearly objective measures is - well, objective. And more than likely, as it’s been alluded before, academic excellence and extracurricular excellence are not mutually exclusive but more than often, they go hand in hand. So you get those results naturally but objectively.
2 Likes
One quarter admit it. How about the rest. It probably much higher than 25% at these elite institutions . Most don’t admit it.
This is from a college admissions website
1 Like
Thanks for the clarification/correction. I appreciate it.
1 Like
Except most of the interesting creative ideas for new products and companies come from the United States. And the theory is that countries with high stakes testing reward kids who can grind. Sometimes to the exclusion of all else. They lack creativity and imagination. (And, I’d note, are banging down the door to attend college in the US!).
So Google, Microsoft, Apple etc – wouldn’t have happened in a different educational ecosystem.
See #4:
5 Likes
No doubt. But if the lesser school ends up being a pricy out of state school or private versus their affordable in state, that is really unfortunate. Some can afford it, for others it will hurt. No wonder kids are applying to so many schools. Between having some realistic expectation of where you’ll get in and be able to afford, you can’t always just apply to 3 schools anymore.
4 Likes