You’re exactly right. Funny story – on standardized tests, I always scored far higher in math than on the verbal sections. And guess what? Not a math person. Not even close. I always got better grades in humanities courses. I have always been a voracious reader for work and pleasure, and I went into a reading- and writing-intensive field. And yet my standardized test scores would have indicated the polar opposite. So I have never trusted their reliability in predicting students’ strengths and success.
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The reality is that most HS students can not afford a 4 year residential college experience. Your comments are per se limiting to the set of students who are relatively privileged.
That is a good question, and there are many college search engines on the web (I am aware not all students have web access at home)…but again the financial reality of the ‘hidden gem’ schools is that they typically don’t meet financial need, so are out of reach financially for a large proportion of HS students, those with ‘less privilege’.
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The number of freshman spots at the Ivys has not increased significantly with the increase in population causing some of the issues that everyone is talking about on this thread. At the same time, the administrative positions at these schools have increased by over 400% but faculty numbers have increased by 100% only and tuition has increased as well.
In the past they used to give a chance at greatness, now they are trying to predict potential greatness with their holistic admission mantra.
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If I recall correctly, the perfumed resume was also a deciding factor. Unfortunately, less possible to include in the online Common App era.
True, but she might have added a flying unicorn emoji on a heart background.
Good point. These decisions do always seem to be made at the margins, and that kind of engaging content could be what tips the scales for the 21st century aspiring law student.
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The most significant advantage at at elite schools is enjoyed by recruited athletes. It is the biggest hook there is. If I recall correctly, any boost given to URM was much less. Of course, that is a moot point now since racial preferences are not allowed.
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Exactly. These decisions are made by the states’ Board of Regents
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Being recruited is the biggest hook that there is based on my experience though the allowed variance depends on the school/conference and sport. An Ivy league squash player doesn’t get the academic relief that a football player might receive.
However, becoming that person is very difficult. A list of a couple hundred potential recruits freshman year gets whittled down to 2-4 by application time so their sorting and shrinking process starts long before admissions season.
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Think you and @prezbucky also forgot to add in that Elle was a “friend to the animals” and “clearly into music” (dancer in Ricky Martin video). Holistic all the way.
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It is only the biggest hook if we look at the end of the process. Athletic recruiting is its own universe where there is a real quota that the athletic coaches have to work within. For the 4-6 recruits for the soccer team that are assured of acceptance, there were a hundred or more kids that were hoping for a spot at the beginning of the process. These kids are their own universe and not really competing with the other applicants. Looks like @Aimlesscat1 raises the same point plus the differences between sports.
Hooks like SES, legacy, URM prior to SCOTUS decision were more akin to pluses vs the general pool. IMO, the power of those hooks is being misperceived by many. It’s not so much that clearly underqualified kids are being admitted (Winthorpe with a 3.5 and a 1400 beats out Joe with a 3.9 and 1500), it is that proportionately more Winthorpes with a 3.9/1500 are being admitted vs 3.9/1500 Joes.
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Why doesn’t Mercedes Benz make a cheaper car so that folks like me that buy basic Honda Civics can afford it? Why don’t the Olympics spread their events out around the world instead of clustering in one city so that everyone could attend their local Olympics? Why doesn’t Macy’s have its Thanksgiving Day parade in August when the weather is better for watching a parade and people don’t have to freeze?
Every president of every Ivy knows how much they could expand the freshman class and fill the seats. They don’t want to do that- for lots of reasons. Like Mercedes not wanting to make a budget car, Yale doesn’t want to stick its students in motels because it’s current urban footprint doesn’t lend itself to much more expansion in the core campus. Yes- a huge new development in West Haven (the town next door) for Life Sciences-- but that’s not for freshman, that’s for the nursing school, various bio-medical research labs, etc. Where can you put yet another dorm and not permanently damage Town/Gown relations in New Haven which already believes that Yale has contributed to a “not terribly welcome” gentrification and pushed out low income residents?
Why should they expand? Because you think so? Get yourself on the Board of Trustees, work on the long range strategic plan, be a voting member of the Facilities Masterplan committee, and then you can persuade your colleagues that the college should expand. Every single college you think should expand has very good reasons (real estate, politics with local and state government, risk management, sustainability/environmental concerns, zoning, finances, quality control) why they don’t want to.
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Affordability is a significant barrier for many against residentially attending a college out of commute range from where they lived before college. Parental financial support typically costs much less for continued living at home and commuting than for living at the college.
Even if they did increase significantly, the number of spaces relative to the national population will still be small compared to the most desired universities in other countries (e.g. UK, Canada). Extreme levels of admission competition tend to occur when the most desired universities are small relative to national population (e.g. China, India).
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Not only would they need to build a new residential college, but also classroom space, hire more faculty, etc etc. And they aren’t interested in doing that.
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All great points. But let’s not forget that exclusivity (as a result of demand far exceeding supply) is also desirable for their brands. After all, if everyone and their cousin got into Harvard because they had a campus in every state, it wouldn’t still be Harvard as we know it today, would it?
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I agree with your sibling. It is often easier for someone outside the family to break reality to your kid than it is for you to do it. In our experience, the kids just seemed to more readily accept news they didn’t want to hear from credible people outside of our family. I can relate to that myself if I’m being honest.
The other thing I’d add is that the quality and the focus among college counselors varies quite widely in our experience. There are counselors who cater to “ivy league or die” people. But most we’ve encountered (worked with or interviewed) don’t.
On the quality piece, there are many counselors who simply don’t bring anything to the table about elite school admissions that you couldn’t learn yourself on the internet. And among those who do, many aren’t qualified to advise on a particular angle in the holistic admissions game, like sports. We worked with one (who has a good reputation in the Seattle area) who, after being told D was being recruited by a Penn coach, said, and I quote, “Penn won’t admit her because of sports.” I was floored. She followed it with the earth shattering news that “Penn doesn’t give athletic scholarships.” She clearly had conflated the two. We interviewed another group affiliated with my D’s soccer club and so held themselves out as having expertise in elite college sports recruiting. Those guys were light on the academic piece. We never did find the counselor who were experts in both, though I know they’re out there.
I think the counselors who can make phone calls - the ones who know the coaches for sports and the ones at, say, boarding schools, who can call admissions - that’s the real insider information that @fiftyfifty1 referenced IMO. Those things move the needle in our experience.
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Harvard franchises!! Just like McDonalds, but with dorms!
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This brings up an interesting point, because Harvard does actually have a virtual campus that it seems anyone can attend – the Harvard Extension School. I know of at least one local activist who touts that she “went to Harvard,” but is referring to some kind of certificate she got at the extension school.
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But not at elite public schools like UT or UNC. The percentage of athletes admitted to those schools is tiny compared to at Ivies, NESCAC, etc.