Right, but that doesn’t mean high achieving students don’t have access to high quality state university. It just means they are fixated on being a Gator or a ‘Nole.
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Getting back to the original question, “Is the college admissions process broken?”
I think we need to first decide how colleges should decide who to accept.
Smart contest?
Most likely to succeed?
Proven winner?
High potential?
Most focussed?
Best fit?
Most effort through process?
Any thoughts here?
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Are we just talking about highly rejectives? Say below 20% acceptance rate?
Public and private?
This is a good place for my periodic reminder that most US colleges accept most applicants….I am not hearing anyone has an issue with who those colleges decide to accept, but I could have missed it.
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Sure, that’s the lowest cost way to make a flagship affordable. But how does lowering tuition address the situation of a student at WVU who is faced with an already weak flagship that has just eliminated multiple departments? No, it’s better to at least consider novel solutions than to always resort to the cheapest way to limp along the parts of a system that are failing.
Maybe change is on my mind because I just got back from the rural area of the state where my family used to live (the funeral of my last relative who used draft horses.) The area used to be all small family farms, but now it’s big consolidated farms that are more efficient. We can mourn what’s lost (and I do!) just like we can mourn the impending loss of so many small, often rural, often religious, sometimes single sex colleges whose time is past. But we don’t have to pretend these schools are the right fit for today’s advanced learners just because they have seats available.
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The current admissions system reminds me a lot of US healthcare-expensive, complicated, stressful, with outcomes that are just okay despite far more resources.
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Well, I do, although I haven’t mentioned it in this thread. I think that 4 year colleges should not accept students who need remediation. This can be done more efficiently at 2 year colleges, and creates more transparency and predictability for students. It’s a bad situation when a students “gets into” 4 year College X, but then has to do a year of classes that don’t count in order to be able to do the real classes of College X.
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Regarding rural areas, it seems that WV chose to place state universities in various parts of the state, but many are too small to offer a full range of programs, and the mountainous terrain limits commute accessibility anyway.
In contrast, WY has one state university, but chose to subsidize residential attendance for financially challenged state residents, due to limitations on who can commute there.
One of my kids decided that the best criterion for choosing a college was “best hair weather”.
We then got to debate- does that mean low frizz or no frizz? No wind or enough to fluff the ends in an attractive and photogenic way when you walk? What about UV rays damaging the cuticle- hats optional in the sun?
But it was a pretty good way to cut through the oh-so-elitist focus on sports teams, frats, food in the dining hall, etc. And a lot more meaningful for this particular kid!
I think colleges need to reboot. Best hair for the win!
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But that’s exactly what happens at UT Austin, which you said above is doing well because the tippy top students do get into UT Austin, while the other strong students can go to UTD and Tx Tech. UT Austin spend tens of millions of dollars on remedial education each year for the top 6% who went to HSs that don’t provide good educations. Beyond spending that money, there are many TX students outside the top 6%, especially at the strong HSs, that can’t go to UT Austin, and they are much stronger students than the top 6% from some of the rural, Title I, and/or underperforming HSs.
Seems like fixing K-12 education should take priority, and that’s where I would rather see an investment of time, money, and effort.
I agree with you that 4 year colleges shouldn’t be spending money on remediation.
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They also have to pay high college tuition rates for what are essentially high school courses in remediation.
UT accepts academically unqualified students as part of its public mandate. They don’t pretend to be taking the best qualified kids, just kids who did well in their environment, no matter how poor that was. At least they arehonest about it
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This brings up some questions:
- What is defined as “remediation”? For example, in math, does it mean needing precalculus? Or lower like algebra 2?
- How can this be checked before admission? Many colleges use placement testing after matriculation, but then the student who may need remediation is already matriculated.
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Finishing in the top 6% indicates intelligence, hard work, and potential and should continue to result in guaranteed acceptance to UT-Austin. However a student should be required to pass any remedial classes first. That guaranteed admission to UT-Austin should be ready and waiting for them whenever they are college-ready.
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Details such as this can be determined at the college level.
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Who will fund this gargantuan facility? Build it, staff it, maintain it? Would all states have to contribute equally, regardless of their financial situation, or should they contribute based on the population of HS students in their state (regardless of HM go on to college? What about homeschooled kids?) Or is this expected to be funded entirely by the federal government? Oh that ought to be fun to try to pass legislatively. Not going to veer into politics here, but this pie-in-the-sky is little more than a fun fantasy.
Even though some of those students from the underachieving/underresourced schools have below 20 on their ACT?
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I know the Florida schools have pathway admittance. Guaranteed transfer after completing x credits at a community college. I believe they get some access to the flagship perks, but the classes are at a local cc. I do not believe it includes housing access. Some kids take it because they really want to go to that school and it’s their best shot.
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Yep. Even with bad test scores.
An ACT of 19 is 4 points above average at the school where I work/volunteer. And yes, even many of the “top” students are not college-ready. But I believe that a spot should be held for them at the flagship, if and when they are done with any needed remedial classes.
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Yes, at this point just a fun fantasy. But you do have to imagine something before you can work toward it.
It’s similar to so many other big problems. Change seems impossible, and is impossible for many years. But then at some point, it’s possible (examples include gay marriage etc.)
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Students wishing to study a less common major including equine science, marine science, aerospace engineering, nuclear engineering, petroleum engineering, ballet, biomedical engineering, culinary arts, forensic science, and specific foreign languages may not have an instate option.
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To me, it seems more logical to work at the state level to advocate for more investment in post-secondary education.
I see the creating of a national university simply replicating the same issues at a larger level. I also don’t see states who have made investments into their university system wanting their best and brightest leaving the state. Finally, for lower income or even middle income earners, the travel expenses would preclude them from the opportunity. I’m a FL mom with a kid and Denver and another in Boston. We definitely underestimated those expenses.
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