While some schools’ admissions processes are not transparent, people can choose not to play in that sandbox. Especially if they don’t like or want uncertainty or stress.
It does not mean the process is necessarily broken if some of the most popular schools have non-transparent and/or holistic admissions processes.
There must have been something. Maybe something you or most wouldn’t agree with, but who knows? Maybe the kids who got in did something extraordinary outside of school. Some of the most gifted kids I have encountered do not get straight A’s. One in particular would become so frustrated if he could achieve the level of perfection that HE desired, he would rip up his assignments and refuse to have them graded or even seen. He didn’t care about his grades. I am quite sure he probably got a perfect standardized test score.
How long ago was this. I see rampant grade inflation in high schools and colleges. If the grades are not generous the tenured professors are scared they can’t fill their classes. The schools just teach to the lowest quintile of the class in a lot of secondary schools. So when they get to college they stuggle and there is need for grade inflation . So many students going to law school , medschool and IB that their grades matter and they don’t want to chance taking rigorous courses
I can personally guarantee that this number is greater than zero;)
In the system I went to there was equal weightage given to an entrance exam and a national level AP style exam.
“Elite” is not necessarily a dirty word. Americans like watching elite sports - right? Am I hearing something about some kind of “super” bowl tonight, possibly? 
…I said it before: I think MIT does it better than most of its American peers (no legacies, relatively limited athletic preferences, not test optional, etc). But just because my kids got in, I’m not going to pretend it’s perfect.
It meets my needs (as it turns out), but not all my wants:-)
In all seriousness, I don’t recall if it’s been discussed in this thread, but several posters brought it up previously that the big disconnect between American and many foreign universities is that the latter tend to admit to specific majors, and can tailor the process accordingly.
Kids that want to study maths at Oxford don’t need to compete with tuba players.
https://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate-study/maths-admissions-test
In the US, for those interested in pursuing elite-level STEM, schools like MIT and Caltech will produce more predictable outcomes than schools that also need proverbial poets.
And so it goes…
Here’s another example. It’s not clear if these kids were admitted to literature majors or STEM. Maybe the reason for so many papers being redacted ( almost 10000 in 2023) due to too much creativity ! Most of these writings have to be narrowly tailored and fit the desired ideology.
But isn’t that an argument against a liberal arts education? Which is fine, some people do not value liberal arts. That doesn’t come down to a system being broken or even flawed. It’s just what suits your needs and expectations.
I don’t know whether Oxford values liberal arts education (I suspect they do), but I do like that they primarily assess their maths applicants on their math skills, not on how many nonprofits they started since kindergarten.
I think that has become a college admission urban legend. At one time it may have been valuable because it was rare and genuine, I imagine now it’s all kind of red flags. I think it’s right up there with “started a club.” There are at least six service related clubs at my school because some kid wanted started a club on their resume.
The kids I have seen get into the higher level schools don’t have that nonsense. The kid who made it to MIT invented something that made it to the Guinness Book of World records. The kids who got into Brown, Williams, etc won national writing contests. Even the kids who got in to play a sport had really strong academic records.
It may not be effective but it is certainly ubiquitous in applicants
Yup. May be one of the reasons kids and parents are shocked at denials. “But I have really impressive E.C.’s!”
Although this doesn’t contradict or pertain exactly to the above comment, Indiana University tends to be highly regarded for its foreign language programs, such in this site:
I recently went to look at my kid’s report card and noticed that his PSAT scores were available. He got a 97th percentile score on his PSAT 9. He got a 68th percentile score on his PSAT 10. He dropped by 44%ile in Verbal.
I don’t care enough about tests to have even had a single conversation with my kid about standardized tests (after the one in elementary school where we said we don’t care). So we haven’t asked him what happened – maybe we will maybe we won’t. For those who want to place a lot of value on tests for college admissions: how would either of these scores place my kid in the appropriate college?
The number of people taking PSAT 8/9 is very small compared to PSAT 10 or 11 when it counts for NMS . So that may influence the percentiles.
I’m not anti-test. How much it should be considered is a debatable point, but I don’t think it should be the only real factor.
If a parent was going to ask me for advice, I’d say “support your child the best you can so a test reveals their best effort and ability.” I wouldn’t die on a no-test hill when it can be a good data point to help them get to a school they want.
I agree completely. Test scores helped my eldest get nice merit scholarships. But I’m not worried about this other kid’s wildly divergent test performance (aside from whatever underlying problem may have caused it). Test scores can be helpful data points. But they can also be not helpful, as with this example.
Based on the 97th %ile, some folks would say he should go to a rigorous school. Based on the 68th %ile, the same folks might say he should not be in a rigorous program (e.g., engineering) at even at a non-rigorous school. I honestly don’t know what he should do for college; I base this on a holistic assessment. He might not even decide to go to college and that’s fine with us too. A holistic application would give a WAY better read on this kid than just the test scores (which would have been accurate for my eldest, in contrast).
…and that is why we have this thread. Everyone is shooting in the dark, trying to figure out which combination of ECs will please the AOs at this school or that school. We have Engineering majors worried about joining another club or acting in another play instead of demonstrating their aptitude in a math or physics test.
Some of it may be shooting in the dark, but some of it is just wishful thinking. Unfortunately, social media has fed into a lot of misconceptions. I can’t tell you how many students use the term “trauma dump” when it comes to their college essay.
Well, the lack of transparency in the process is what causes all those needless activities and aggrandized essays. A source of stress and a waste of time due to opacity.