Not as much of a problem in systems where the high school curriculum is relatively standardized. In Ontario to get admitted to university you need to present marks in 6 grade 12 university level (somewhat akin to honours level) courses, and depending on the major you apply to, some of those 6 need to be specific prerequisite courses (e.g. if you want Engineering you’re going to need English (everyone has to have English), pre-Calculus, Calculus, Chemistry, Physics, and a university level elective course of your choosing). You don’t need AP/DE/IB courses but you also can’t take College (i.e. “general”) level either.
The universities put on admissions fairs and do road shows to the various high schools and the guidance counsellors are well versed in university and college admissions requirements as are the teachers. Many high schools also have a course planning tool that provides information on applying to university and college and the admissions requirements. It’s not a secret what you need to do to get admitted to your program of choice, get the requisite grades in the requisite courses.
If all else fails there’s always reddit and university websites.
I was actually thinking of discussing this so thanks for raising it. IMO, it is a big misconception to think that only holistic admission can yield a diverse class. As I noted above, my D22 has befriended classmates studying a wide range of fields. Even among her STEM classmates, you find accomplished musicians, artists, athletes (and, ahem, even one who is a [xxxx] dealer). It shouldn’t be surprising that academically bright kids - like all other types of kids - can have very different traits and interests.
It’s the same for my kids’ Ontario universities. No holistic admissions required but they still end up with engaged and diverse campuses (that’s not to say that some programs don’t practice holistic admissions, they do, just that the majority don’t).
In addition to having a relatively standardized high school curriculum, Canada also has a lot of room in its top universities, relative to the number of graduating high school students in the country.
I have lurked on this thread for quite a while. My son has EU/US dual citizenship. We have thought extensively about him applying to universities in The Netherlands or Germany, but it doesn’t feel the best fit for him because he would have to apply for a specific major. He is a fairly strong student. 35 ACT and lots of stem APs of 4 and 5. But, he is wavering between majoring in various social or natural sciences. For that reason, I prefer a traditional American liberal arts curriculum where he wouldn’t have to choose a major during application. My neighbor’s daughter is studying in the UK. She’s enjoying herself immensely and getting a great education in biology, but she does wish that she were able to take courses of interest outside of her faculty. All of these international university systems have pluses and minuses.
Digressing a little but Cambridge allows switching of majors for many courses (e.g., natural sciences to law) after two years. And within natural sciences, you don’t need to declare a specialization until your 3rd year. (By way of comparison, it’s much more rigid at Oxford.)
“we’ve got a random process, disguised as a deliberative one”
this above comment nails it. If you look at the competitive applicant pool this is what you see. I feel the same with my alma mater. I find myself questioning the process that I am a part of.
At least if they drew the lottery the kids would feel that it’s just luck of the draw as opposed to thinking what else they could have done better.
Thank you for sharing. I think we all approach this through the lens of our own experiences or of people we know. My son was very close to committing to a college that was almost exclusively business and comp sci. He is a finance major. That was definitely a consideration - what if he changed his mind. It can be kind of crazy to think a 17 or 18 year old needs to know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their life. He’s finishing his junior year at a LAC as a finance major, but picked up an unrelated minor. I don’t think there’s one right answer to LaC or less holistic more STEM curriculum and admissions. I’m glad there’s both.
I think that is one of the biggest issues here in the US - outside of some top publics (whose primary mission is to educate students from their state) most highly selective schools don’t have large student bodies. Compare that to U of T with 46,000 undergrads and McGill with 26,000.
And the US has about 10x the number of high school graduates each year, I believe? Just imagine if the top university in the US had the same size in proportion to the population, with room for 460,000 undergrads… the admission process would probably look quite different.
On a separate but tangential note, I reviewed a job application from a graduate of a 50%ish acceptance rate school - 3.9 GPA in international relations or some similar liberal arts area (so likely heavy in writing and communication skills, I’d imagine). My colleague and I were literally laughing out loud at how poorly written the cover letter was — high drama, clearly not genuine, and just lacking in professionalism and maturity (“eg, I feel like I was born to work in this industry” and went downhill from there). So admissions aside, something is definitely failing if this was a reflection of a 3.9 GPA graduate. Just saying.
This neighbor’s daughter would have needed to apply for a new UK student visa because her initial one only covered the duration of her first choice of program. In her case, changing a major would have added another year of study and thus, additional expenses. The UK government increased the fees for UK student visas by 35% this past year. So many pieces to the puzzle.
I had a student write an essay for Gatsby and used AI. He ran it through a program that changes synonyms to avoid plagiarism detection. It changed the word Great every single time. The Remarkable Gatsby. The Unparalleled Gatsby.