+1. The student we have in my D24 class who is committed to mit for lacrosse is one of most academically gifted in the school. He’s just also happened to be a talented athlete. What a richness of blessings on him! And he’s nice too 
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You raise a very fair point. The UK also suffers from growing inequality and universities here have started to take this into account by slightly lowering admission requirements for “contextual offers”. See, for example, UCL’s approach - Access UCL Scheme | Prospective Students Undergraduate - UCL – University College London (tldr - it’s essentially income-based but also includes abandonment and students carrying significant family responsibilities). Note that extra-curricular activities are still not taken into account for contextual offers (and, with respect to the US, I’ve seen recent articles discussing how focusing on ECs also benefit wealthier students disproportionately).
Two other developments in the UK that I find quite intriguing:
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You’re seeing a number of recently established state schools (usually in lower-income neighborhoods) having great success in placing students into top universities, such that you come across headlines such as this after each admission cycle: "The state sixth form getting more Oxbridge offers than Eton: Free school set up to help disadvantaged students into top universities beats historic £50,000-a-year college"
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Oxford recently launched the Astrophoria Foundation Year Programme that gives “those with significant academic potential, [but] who have experienced severe personal disadvantage or disrupted education” a free preparatory year at Oxford, after which they can formally enroll in their chosen field of study. Participation is currently capped at 50 students (due to budgetary constraints, I believe), which is not enough but it’s a start.
I agree with the view that different educational systems can use different admission approaches but I guess what troubles me about the US system (at least the admission process at the most selective tier) is that they seek to identify, shape and evaluate the personal “character” of applicants - that’s a bit too intrusive for me and, perhaps more important, I feel it leads to a lot of performative behavior by students.
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Agree wholeheartedly.
Even setting aside the sordid history of the entire idea of using character assessment in college admissions to keep out the undesirables - how dare they pass judgement on someone’s character?
What record of success in that area are they running on, exactly?
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I was talking to a professor friend recently about this. She teaches in the US but was educated in Europe.
She was telling me how frustrated she is with how her university (in the US) admits disadvantaged students into the regular entering class with weaker academic qualifications than other students. Even though such students may be talented and motivated, if they are already behind academically when they enter, she feels that it can be a struggle for them to catch up, and a struggle for her to teach them.
She told me that many European universities offer a preparatory year aimed at this type of student, in order to bring them up to speed. She thinks the preparatory year is a better system that makes the university accessible to a wider spectrum of students, while also ensuring that all students have adequate preparation.
Not having personal experience of course, I can’t comment on how well it works, other than what my friend tells me…
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Was this directed at me? If so, I think I am in general agreement with your positions here. But telling someone to get a grip? A little strong isn’t it?
I had assumed, perhaps naively, that the “personal qualities” they referenced was more about their discipline records at school. I have a “gifted” student who was recently suspended for some pretty shocking sexual harassment. If that dings his application despite some stellar test scores, I’m good with that. If it’s actually being used as a guise for discrimination, I’ll also put that under “broken” category.
Northeastern won in a nail biter!
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So exciting! Somehow the not really a sports school turned my kid into a hockey fan!
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Per long-standing policy, this is the only thread on which the impact of race on admissions can be discussed. Users not members of the Politics Forum will need to join before posting.
That’s a real issue, particularly in STEM subjects where a student’s preparedness (or lack thereof) becomes very clear early on at places like Oxbridge/Imperial/peers and there’s no shortcut to catching up. That’s why I find it encouraging to see these new state schools in the UK (which appear to be extremely rigorous) and the Oxford prep program that seek to close the gap as much as possible prior to university. I believe the Oxford program is only in its second year so not sure how well it is working.
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This
Maybe because I am in the midst of high school juniors and seniors thinking about college, but I am not sure this is really on the admission process. I think kids are far more influenced by social media than by adults who are being more realistic with them. I think parents also are seeking status for their kids via college acceptances.
Last year, I helped a bunch of juniors with their essays. Many were not my students so I had no real background information on them. One girl’s essay was a mess. It lacked focus and organization with a trite, aggrandized sentiment. When I tried to guide her, she didn’t even understand my advice. Two of our state universities don’t even consider essays, so I wondered (without saying why) if she was applying to those schools. Nope. Columbia and Brown. I asked her if she had looked at the Common Data for those schools. Yes. She thought her 1160 SAT score might be ok because 25% of the kids admitted were under the data. It was NOT my place to tell her she was not getting into those schools. I encouraged her to make sure she had some true safety schools. That’s all I can do. I am hoping her parents knew better.
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That seems the natural result of an opaque holistic process designed in part to maximize applications.
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This is spot on. What’s also lost is finding the right fit versus pursuing US News Rankings. Rankings move around and can/are gamed, families should focus on fit and outcomes. Ex. Tulane dropped from 44 to 73 in this year’s rankings, yet most would agree it is still the great school it was prior to the drop (we don’t have any kids there, just using it as an ex). The delta when weighing the factors in these rankings are often measured in tenths of decimal points. My observation is while the process is stressful and could be improved, really what needs to change is the obsession by parents and students with these rankings and chasing status.
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I’m starting to see the same being offered by a number of universities here in Ontario though the vast majority of the programs are being marketed to international students whose academic credentials aren’t quite sufficient to get them directly admitted, especially those who need to improve their language skills. It’s not really aimed at domestic students but that may be in large part because it’s easy for domestic students to do high school upgrade at little or no cost.
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The school’s common data is listed. She is way below it in terms of gpa, sat, really everything. There is a point where people need to accept the information given to them. They are CHOOSING to believe a TikTok video of some kid claiming they busted out of juvie and are on their way to Columbia University.
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Yes. I will say I am (and this is purely anecdotal) noticing a shift in people realizing the benefit of not assuming monstrous debt for the sake of chasing status. I think that is partly what is driving the numbers at the big Florida schools.
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Whose needs are being ignored by few academic peers being educated together at the likes of Thomas Jefferson?
If nurturing it’s few brightest minds is not the primary goal of a country’s best educational institutions, then:
- I am not sure what is (really, I’m not; their “mission statements” read like Pravda).
- The brightest minds will be nurtured elsewhere in the world.
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Most elite schools say they want to educate future “leaders” - others may state they want to be “innovators”. In all honesty, many of their mission statements are fairly grandiose - but, maybe that is just me. I’m not sure there is any school who states outright that educating “top scholars” is their mission (although I could be wrong as I haven’t read through all their mission statements).
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