in some fields phd may produce positive ROI, but i am not sure.
well, certainly not in the field i am familiar with. CalTech students with 2.5 to 3.0 GPAs were getting admissions at Stanford, MIT etc while 4.0 students even from UCLA would struggle for those well funded phd positions. people in the field knew what it meant to graduate from CalTech. those admissions were not based on ECs and community service, not at least in my days.
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I have a very different experience than you then. Having attended grad school at both Georgetown SFS and UC Berkeley (both tippy top grad programs in my field), I would not say that the majority of my cohorts at these schools came from brand new undergrad schools. A few did. They were the exception, not the rule. They had all been superstars at their T150 undergrad schools though.
So experience varies, perhaps depending on the field. I am not STEM, which may make a difference.
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Given the variation in what people mean by âgraduate schoolâ, the effect varies:
- PhD program: where can you get the better undergraduate research experience and LoR from a respected faculty member in the field, in addition to doing well in the upper level course work related to your PhD major.
- MBA program: basically aligned with launching into a career, since MBA programs consider post-BA/BS work experience quality as well as college record.
- Medical and law school: where can you get the highest GPA and base learning to begin prep for the needed standardized test. Of course medical school admission requires a lot more beyond that. But this suggests that the colleges with the strongest students competing for grades may not be optimal, unless they also have very high levels of grade inflation.
This is a very popular assumption yet it could not be more wrong. The vast majority of these kids play their sports because they love them and they love hanging out with their teammates. In most recruitable sports the number going on to college is small. Even at the highest levels the numbers are smaller than many believe. My D plays her sport at a very high level both her HS and club. On her current team less than half will move on to play in college (100% are good enough). Some because what they want out their college experience doesnât align for both academics and recruiting opportunities, others because it has been great but they are ready for new adventures.
A large number of her friend group play sports seriously but the majority of them are not moving to the next level. They are ready to move on as well. But, they all (male and female) will be crying when they walk off of their fields, courts, pools for the final time in HS.
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The point of the Chetty study was to show that top 1% kids have an unfair advantage in admission to Ivy+ colleges, this point is more relevant if they show a benefit to attending Ivy+ colleges, so they emphasized 3 benefits that they found and did not emphasize things like average/median earnings, which did not show a significant increase for attending a mor selective college. I mentioned the 3rd one in my earlier post. None of this conflicts with my earlier statement that they found no significant difference in average/median earnings from attending the more selective colleges, which they note is similar to Dale & Kruegerâs earlier review.
- Grads of Ivy+ colleges were more likely to work at firms that employed a disproportionately large number of Ivy+ grads (âprestigiousâ is defined as employing a lot of Ivy+ grads).
- Grads of Ivy+ colleges were more likely to attend Ivy+ colleges for grad school (and one of 4 publics).
- Grads of Ivy+ colleges were more likely to have $600k+ earnings at a particular age (33 as I recall).
It also states that:
You are quoting Dale & Krueger, not Chetty this time. It did indeed find that average tuition expense after FA was associated with increased earnings. Looking it more detail, the effect only seems to become significant when they add an interaction term with parents income. That is just having a high after FA tuition expense to parents is not significantly associated with increased future earnings. Instead you need high cost to parents after controlling for the parents income level. When the parents/students are struggling to pay tuition, the students are more likely to end up in higher earning career paths. There are a variety of reasons why this relationship may occur, but it doesnât sound like your original point.
Two guys from here just got scholarships for Cornhole. I think every sport is recruitable if the school is wanting to attract those students.
In engineering, T10 graduate schools are filled with T20 undergraduates and students from IITs of India, Tsinghua, Seoul National U, Sharif U of Technology and the likes. Coming from a less competitive undergrad, one could experience an impostor syndrome at least initially and a constant need to prove they belong. It is also harder to secure research/teaching assistantships when professors have the best in the world to pick from.
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Imposter syndrome is generally very common among grad students, so much so that it is often a running joke on various grad school facebook pages. It doesnât appear to be restricted to a specific category of student.
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Not sure where to put this so posting it here, since it pertains to college admissions:
College student population declines big time at California State University system
It is not a surprise to those who noticed that most CSU campuses are not impacted now, compared to a decade ago when most were. Impacted means that admission thresholds are determined competitively due to the number of applicants meeting baseline standards exceeding the number who can be admitted based on space available (accounting for yield). The CSU baseline standards for California resident frosh applicants are completion of subject requirements with a 2.5 recalculated GPA.
However, some majors at non impacted campuses are impacted and therefore have competitive admission. Nursing or pre-nursing is a typical example. CS and engineering majors are typically not impacted at non impacted CSUs.
Yes. Thatâs the answer to the question posed in this thread.
My S24 just rejected by UF (in-state).
Stats:
uw 4.0
ACT 35 (not super scored- 33, 35, 35, 36)
2 yrs Cpt of Swim team with mult school records
Volunteered coaching swimming and tutoring ACT at his high school with some notable improvements
Clubs/organizations- NHS, founded investment club that now has 24 memebers
Employment- works 10-20 hrs/wk changing tires
Speaks 2 languages (English and Swedish)
He had to attend multiple high schools (lost my job during COVID) so his class rank in FL appears low since he only had 2 yrs of grade inflation vs other kids having 4.
His senior class schedule is: AP Calc A/B/C/D, AICE World Hist, AICE Biology, AICE English and 1 period of being a TA (he was supposed to have AICE Chemistry but his high school had nobody that could teach so they closed the course.
I see the stats of kids that got admitted. Even OOS he crushed. Kids in his high school got in with SAT scores in the high 20âs.
We live in a small town in FL. What could he have done differently? He has NEVER made less than an âAâ whether it be in TX, CO or FL. His ACT score places him in the top 99.3%. His class schedule is rigorous. He has shown dedication through sports, work, and his volunteering. All I can think of is that he was penalized because both of his parents went to college.
This wasnât some high reach IVY⊠this was our state school. Crushing blow to a hard working kid.
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Sorry to hear about your sonâs UF decision. Similar anecdotes around NC with respect to UNC Chapel Hill as well. Hugs to your smart and hard working boy.
Edit: I wonder if the Admissions committee didnât fully assess how his class rank was affected by attending different schools.
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Can hs counselor help with an appeal? Would he attend if denial was a mistake?
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I emailed the school counselor. Her response was âthatâs terrible⊠I donât have any contacts at UF. Perhaps you should try to reach admissions.â
Thatâs exemplifies the problem at his school. Rural school with not enough people that actually care.
I have emailed the governor, the UF president (almost laughable because I work for UF), and our state legislators to see if anyone is willing to look into the issue.
Sorry to hear that. It seems ridiculous that a student with a 4.0 UW gpa and a very high ACT score should be denied at the state flagship - especially coming from a rural school which is most likely under represented. Hugs to your son.
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First off, it is an embarrassment for the state that your son wasnât accepted.
I have been following UF admissions rather closely for 4+ years now because of my kids. Originally, on the CDS, it said class rank wasnât considered. Now, it says class rank is âconsidered,â which is still the 3rd tier of importance.
Still, in my time of paying attention to UF admissions, I have seen no better indicator of who will and wonât be accepted than class rank. My theory is that, for the reasons you stated, your sonâs class rank fell below a certain threshold and he was rejected early on in their screening process. If true, this is an absolute joke.
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I donât understand how these two statements can both be true. He has the highest possible uw GPA.
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Do they rank with weighted GPA thus disadvantaging this kid?
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Anyone know whether the UF GPA recalculation excludes out of state courses from the extra weighting points?
Also, are there any majors that are hyper competitive to get into at UF?