<p>I don’t necessarily agree with the “letting them fail” philosophy. The author didn’t give examples of “healthy” failure experiences, versus failures caused by the child’s immaturity that could have long-term negative consequences.</p>
<p>If we are talking about letting your kid “fail” in something like spending all their allowance on a penny toss game at the fair at which they have almost no chance of winning a prize, then that is fine. But allowing your child to fail chemistry to teach him a lesson in “character” when you are around to help, seems stupid.</p>
<p>I would agree it isn’t any big sin to fail or fall down, what is worse is when you don’t get up again.
I have done lots of things to " make my kids happy" but I didn’t see it that way at the time. Letting them eat their cereal from a bowl on the floor like a cat, wearing the same shorts & tank top for a whole year in 4th grade, only brushing her hair when she was asleep. Things that were more important to them, then it was to me to impose " the adult" thing to do.</p>
<p>I tried to introduce logical consequences from the time they were small so they could have some control over their own lives and so they could learn from controlled choices. Wearing sandals ( & socks) during the winter may get her feet wet & cold, but they were her feet. Allowing her to dye her hair brown when she was in middle school because she dearly wanted to look like her friends ( it was honey blonde), may have been construed as “making her happy”, but it also gave her the chance to see the results of her decision & to live with it. ( she liked it until it eventually grew out).</p>
<p>I never liked the retort" because I said so. It seemed to me to be used when there wasn’t a logical reason, but it would be easier for the adult if the child just went along. I don’t think parenting is to make things easier for anyone- it is a tough job & things can be a lot slower & rougher when we guide our kids to make their own choices, but we also can be satisfied that we are giving them the skills to make progressively more difficult decisions & learn to trust their own judgement.</p>
<p>Sylvan, I wasn’t making you out to be anything. You wrote your own post. It just made me think of my own examples, and its always why I wrote at the front “are you sure?” I think you just weren’t thinking of enough examples or completely mistated what you had meant to say. I don’t for a minute think you are some kind of hardcore bootcamp parent, but I’m also not responsible for what you choose to write and how it gets interpreted.</p>
<p>I know what the article was saying and I wasn’t disagreeing with it at all. I was merely responding to Sylvan who said only at xmas and birthdays did she make decisions with the kids happiness in mind. I don’t think she, or any other parent really does that and i was trying to illustrate the point. As I said, it’s not at the expense of wellbeing and development. </p>
<p>As with all things parenting, it’s entirely a balancing act. 90% of the time we think we are disagreeing on this forum, and its only because of where we are on the tightwire…some a bit to the left, some a bit over to the right (though even that is just with words…I have a feeling in practice none of us are overly different than others). </p>
<p>Deep down I think most of us have the same parenting philosophy. Of course we enjoy making our kids happy, when it doesn’t hurt them or anyone else to do so; and sometimes (and with some kids many times) we have to make the tough choices that make them ‘unhappy’ but that hopefully to benefit them in the long run. </p>
<p>In practice, I imagine some of us find it harder than others to be the tough parent, either watching our kids hurt or letting them experience failure (or even persisting in face of nagging/crying/battles). And there we might differ in how good we are at letting it happen (even when we know we should let it happen).</p>
<p>“She’s saying we need to allow them to fail.” - I do get that. It reminds of the “Love and Logic” parenting series I read the books, attended some classes at church. The emphasis is letting children learn to make choices and have logical consequences (as opposed to just arbitrary punishments) while they are young and the stakes are low. </p>
<p>The line I loved (after trying it with suprising success) - “Ok. Do what you want and skip the homework. I already passed 3rd grade - it’s your decision”</p>
<p>I’m trying to think of all the myriad of decisions we have made regarding our kids and whether any of them outside birthday and Christmas madness have been made because “that’s what will make them happy”. I’d have to say that doesn’t seem to have been the governing criteria, but then we’re not all that conventional in the parental department.</p>
<p>I would interpret the above to mean that decisions were not made using happiness as explicit criteria, but perhaps happiness was a byproduct of a decision anyway?</p>
<p>For example- with Halloween coming up- how did you decide on costumes or if they were even going to celebrate? Wouldn’t their desires/happiness be considered or was the adult POV paramount?</p>
<p>It seems to me that there are differences in how parents conceive of what it means to be a successful parent–there are varying mixes of how important it is for your kids to be happy, independent, financially successful, exhibiting good character, living life with a purpose, etc. Probably we’d all like our kids to be all of these things, but we probably vary in which ones we’d sacrifice to get more of the others.</p>
<p>I interpreted sylvan’s phrase as meaning the only times when decisions might rest purely on their happiness. Most times, most of us do make some quick evaluation- it’s one thing to wear mittens in summer, quite another to go naked outside in the middle of winter. Which, btw, my neighbor kids kept trying to do, when I was young. They all grew up into fine, responsible, caring adults despite the fact that their mom was tough about everything and over-structured.</p>
<p>Remember, nothing sells unless it attracts attention, accurate or not, one-sided or not. Anyone see legendofmax’s thread recently on how to raise kids- that was, I thought, a celebration of our parenting roles.</p>
<p>As someone else said, responsible parenting is a balancing act between wanting to give in to what the kids want and doing what we think as parents is necessary.The article can be talking about two types of parents, the ‘overtly permissive parent’ and the ‘overtly strict one’, both can be guilty of the same behaviors.</p>
<p>The overtly permissive parent, for example, when their kid whines for every little thing under the sun and gets it, or the parent who won’t let their kid play little league or sports because “it will undermine their confidence” is as guilty as the parent focused on ‘achievement’ who actively sits on their child, never lets them make decisions, and when for example the kid gets a less then desirable grade on a test, is all over the teacher (and the kid), trying to get it reversed. The overtly permissive parent is afraid of the kid being unhappy, the overtly strict one is rapidly afraid of ‘failing’, so they end up doing the same thing. The upper class parents who push to get their kids in the right preschool, whose vision is junior ending up a member of the juinior league, and spending tons of money on them getting the ‘right experience’ to get into HYP is as bad as the Tiger Mom who only allows her kids to do certain things, and unless it is something they think will get them into the top school and that elusive job and high end car, well, not worth it. The parent who tells the kid who is failing a class “that’s okay, it isn’t your fault” (I am talking a kid who isn’t learning disabled or whatever) rather then helping the kid why they aren’t doing well and helping them correct it is a different beast but both are doing the kid a disservice because they are not letting them fail, albeit in different ways and for different reasons. </p>
<p>Call it the ‘helicopter parent’, it doesn’t matter, it is setting the kid up IMO for a hard fail later,the parent who demands too little of their child or the parent who in effect demands their child follow a concrete path they believe guarantees success are going to have a hard time later; one might appear more successful then the other, but you have to wonder about that.</p>
<p>Not following this. Are you saying you would let your kid fail a class because helping him would be a disservice? That’s what lazy parents do/say.</p>
<p>I think I actually get it. If you think about yourself- would you rather be ‘happy’ with a lot of money you made stepping on people, sliming along in business, etc or just feel a sense of ‘gratification’ in your life and feeling ‘good about things’? the ‘goodness’ is what perhaps the parents of say ‘ben and jerry’ might feel as opposed to the parents of the white collar crime people. I would much rather have goodness in my kids and myself. the happiness follows in a true sense.</p>
<p>I will just observe that if you’ve been one kind of parent for 18 years, it’s probably not going to work out well for you or your kid if you try to become a radically different kind of parent as soon as the kid turns 18.</p>
<p>We didn’t knowingly let them fail at things. Being a parent has no real end zone and we will always try our best to help them right themselves during the rough patches. </p>
<p>Regarding happiness, I think the saying “You can only be as happy as your least happy child” is quite true. I have known some parents for whom this doesn’t apply. They really are separated emotionally from their kids. My own parents are that way.</p>
<p>To me, “happy” isn’t the right word - we don’t all walk around being yippy skippy overjoyed all the time, that’s simply not feasible. To me, a better word is “content.” Content with yourself, where you are in life, what you are fortunate enough to have, and not spending too much time worrying about what you don’t have.</p>
<p>I want my children content, healthy (physically and emotionally), productive and self-sufficient.</p>
<p>Oh, I don’t know. I didn’t send my kids to private high schools, but I’ve spent money on experiences, like travel overseas and academic camps for their interests that I felt enriched their / our lives, and I’m spending a pretty penny now at their colleges. There are people who spend appreciable amounts of money on other pursuits for their children, like ballet or music lessons. What else should I spend money on? Is there an amount of money per year that marks the line in between “enough” and “too much”?</p>
<p>My older one was never “content” a moment of his life. He’s just not wired that way. I literally had moments of yelling at him to “relax and just be content for once!” Sometimes they are intrinsically different from us. That is its own parenting challenge . . .</p>