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<p>Possible, but probably less likely than someone in the US not realizing “… got gypped” is based on an ethnic insult. Most people in the US know of Jewish people, but fewer know that “Gypsy” refers to an actual ethnic group. (Europe probably differs here, since there are actual Gypsies around, and lots of prejudice against them.)</p>
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<p>Hmmm, that does not stop the NHL team in Vancouver from calling itself the Canucks.</p>
<p>I remember in college a group of us went out and one person said " I just got jewed" I just looked at him dumbfounded, but I don’t think he had any idea. Likewise, I have said “gipped” before, actually a long time ago- maybe even in college. It isn’t a term I have heard much now. However I never knew the origin, so as ucbalumnus said, now informed, don’t do it. So thanks, I won’t. </p>
<p>I was always told that “Canuck” was an insult. I would no more call someone a Canuck than I would call someone a Mick, Wop, Frog, or whatever. The fact that there is now a team with that name has always taken me aback.</p>
<p>I was in my 30s the first, and possibly only, time I heard someone use the expression “jew you down.” I was so flabbergasted I didn’t even say anything. Usually I pipe up when I hear anti-semitic or homophobic remarks or whatever. (Although I very rarely do, not hanging out with those who think of doing so.)</p>
<p>My parents came from Poland. For quite a while after they came here, they did not understand that “Polack” was offensive, because that is the proper term for someone from Poland in Polish. Context is everything and words can change their meanings based on usage. (Think of the word “gay”, which meant happy when I was young, and was unrelated to sexuality.)</p>
<p>Coming from Detroit, with its huge Polish population, most Poles referred to themselves as Polacks. It truly is the use: a dumb Polack joke is not good. An example is from the first part of a book about getting into the actual archives of the KGB. The author describes being kept in a hallway with 2 goons who kept coming up to him with questions about his Russian, etc. They managed to pry out of him his father’s name and the goon says, “Ah, Jew” and walks away. That’s an offensive use, a label of denigration. </p>
<p>As to “gypped”, I don’t think of the Roma as “Gypsys” or however one spells it. The people are the Roma or Romani and I think that referring to them properly is not only important but removes much of the residual racism. Words have to come from somewhere. (I don’t even know what to think of labels for Irish Travelers and other Travelers.) </p>
<p>I saw a list of common racist expressions. It included cotton pickin’, gypped, “boy”, jew down and a few others. My reaction is that cotton pickin’ is almost a parody, except maybe if used by a white person in the South, and I can’t imagine using it without an element of sarcasm or exaggeration. The others besides gypped are blunt. I’ve heard older white men call black men “boy”. (Best response ever was at a buffet in NC, “Excuse me sir but you can’t call us that any more.”) I spent some time with English executives a few decades ago and was appalled by the number of racist expressions they used, such as n******r in the woodpile and a variety of slurs about Jews, Pakistanis, the Irish and people from the Caribbean. </p>
<p>I live in an area that has a heavy Jewish presence. i do not use the word “Jew” because i do not want it to be construed as insulting to anyone who so thinks it is However, I hear the word used a lot, among those who are Jewish as well as those who are not. I do not hear it often used in the context of it being insulting, fortunately, but I just prefer to avoid using the word alone. </p>
<p>I had no idea what the origin of the word “gypped” is or “paddy wagon” and have used those terms freely Never heard any objections or comments about them either, and we have a lot of Paddys in our Irish Catholic family. Should have made the connection, come to think of it, but never did. Though it was a “padded wagon” for those who were out of control. Learn something new all the time.</p>
<p>As a kid of poor white southern ancestors, I hadn’t considered "“Cotten picken’”. as racially charged. My ancestors were lucky to be picking cotton during the bad years of the depression. My family used it as a common diminutive term. “Get your cotton-picking fingers out of my project”.
I will stop using it now that I know others find it offensive. </p>
<p>ucbalumnus—Yes, I have always felt, as an American of French-Canadian ancestry, ambivalent about the Vancouver Canucks. Kinda like the N-word, in that when African-Americans call themselves that, it’s OK to them, but if I ( a white person) use the word, it’s a vile slur. </p>
<p>I read a book about Canadian history a few years back, and it was very interesting to learn about the tension between Quebec, which has considered secession a few times, and the rest of English Canada. Quebec has the economy to make it on their own, but the Maritime Provinces would be cut off from the rest of Canada, and their economies are not robust enough to go out on their own.</p>
<p>Take any Polish joke, and substitute “Canuck”, and that’s the mentality of some English Canadians re: Quebecois.</p>
<p>Read the first few posts. “-ski” to me means likely a Catholic Pole (not Polish person),as opposed to a Russian -“sky”.<br>
I heard some ancestor on the Polish side added letters to make the name sound more Polish. btw- I researched Poland several months ago and discovered the Poles were good to Jews and had around 30% nonPoles living there until Hitler and the Russians removed people (eg Russians and other ethnic groups sent to their ethnic areas in other countries- and borders were drawn based on ethnicities somewhat, plus what invaders did to Jews). This left Poland over 90% Catholic, hence the likelihood of having the Polish -ski and being Catholic. There, I used Jews and Poles. Not polacks, btw (or dumb polack)- my father brought home so many polack jokes he and my mother wouldn’t let us kids see. Aside- found out not all Christian Italian Americans are Catholic, who knew some converted to become Methodists. So much for stereotyping…</p>
<p>We do not say “Christian person”, why say “Jewish person” if describing a person based on religion? I covered nationalities. I do get confused with religion, ethnicity and country, however. It seems different people with the same ancestry can be of a religion or not, can’t change ethnic origins and can choose the country they wish to to live in or support. Also it seems that based on affiliations and treatment many choose their ethnic ties over their place. Perhaps because the ethnic culture trumps the regional culture. Again, regardless of where political boundaries were drawn, some of my ancestors were always Polish- in language et al, despite The German Kaiser requiring their service long ago. And Germans living in Poland at one time (although it is surprising to note that not that long ago there were all of the various groups before a unified Germany).</p>
<p>Jews/Jewish people become a special case because of historical treatment- an us/them mentality (on both sides?). It also becomes confusing when there is also the ethnic group. Plus the religion founded country.</p>
<p>Ellis Island officials DID change surnames. A onetime classmate had Finnish ancestry but the official couldn’t figure out the ancestor’s name spelling so he was asked his father’s name and became ----son, not a Finnish end to names.</p>
<p>To add to issues. Hitler stole the swastika from India and unfortunately most of the world recognizes his use even now. Indians still use the symbol- it means “well being” and is drawn at the start of an auspicious work to quote an Indian children’s question book (written in English)- for both Hindus and Jains (again, not Hindu people or Jain people). I read years ago how some Hindu immigrants put the swastika on their temple but removed it once they found out it offended neighboring Jews. So we have Indian items with swastikas given to us by Indians (there’s another issue- Indian, not Native American…) in our home.</p>
<p>The bottom line is what is/is not acceptable/customary changes with time. Usage or meaning can change. NO one group has any more/less right to be a special case than any other forever.</p>
<p>Time to quit. Have I offended everyone yet???</p>
<p>Re: swastikas</p>
<p>You can find them on vegetarian items (presumably marketed to Buddhists) in some grocery stores.
<a href=“http://www.veggie-world.com/OnlineShop/Veggie-Barbecue-Sauce?xeNUkBp”>http://www.veggie-world.com/OnlineShop/Veggie-Barbecue-Sauce?xeNUkBp</a>
Note, however, that the Nazi version points the other way from the traditionally used version in Asia.</p>
<p>Warsaw was 30% Jewish. Poland as a whole was 10% Jewish before the Nazis. I don’t like to generalize, but Poland was a relatively good place for the Jews in the 1500’s and 1600’s; not so great in the 1800’s, certainly in the portion that went to Russia as a result of the Polish partitions in the 1790’s. There were lots of ups and downs along the way. There’s a great deal of interest in Poland these days in the country’s Jewish history, including the opening of a new museum.</p>
<p>Wisc75- you didn’t offend me. I’ve discussed that context and intent are considered but another component of being offended is letting something offend me. Some discussions may not be easy, but honest discussion that is meant to be informative are not offensive to me.</p>
<p>I agree with you that if a group is considered special, that leads to problems. I would not want to be treated differently. That would make me uncomfortable. However, if someone asks me how I prefer to be referred to, I would think it was considerate, not treating me differently. </p>
<p>Judaism is different from Christianity in many ways- both theologically and historically. One could say that all religions are, so if each group prefers to be addressed differently, that does not mean they wish for preferential treatment. Recognizing my ethnicity does not negate that I am fully American. </p>
<p>You are correct that terms and symbols and their meaning change over time. Using some terms in historical context could be appropriate, however, if they offended someone I would prefer not to use them. Still I respect personal freedom and so if someone wished to put a symbol on their personal property or use whatever word they like, it is not my place to stop them. However, if they asked me my opinion, I would tell them.</p>
<p>The OP asked- and these are the replies.</p>
<p>There are many examples of how language changes over time. “Mental Retardation” was an established diagnosis, however now, the preferred term is “Intellectual Disability”. When I was a child, I would not imagine calling one of my parents’ friends by their first name, but now, several of my children’s friends call me by my first name. </p>
<p>Considering context, I am a person like anyone else. Someone doesn’t need to introduce me as “my Jewish friend”, I can be just a friend unless it is important to know that I am Jewish in that context. Perhaps that is why some people prefer being called a “Jewish person”, to emphasize that, but I don’t mind being called Jewish. Describing someone as a “person with a disability” is preferable to some people instead of “disabled” .</p>
<p>I’ve never been asked to call someone a “Christian person” instead of “Christian”, but if someone asked me to call them that, I would. </p>
<p>When in doubt, I think it is OK to ask how someone wants to be addressed. </p>
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<p>Like!!</p>
<p>To me the most important thing here is to be alive to the idea that expressions that one has “always used” might have negative and offensive origins and/or current meaning and stop using them when that is made clear. As a kid I didn’t actually really grasp that a “Polack joke” was actually talking about a real group of people. I didn’t grow up in a place with large ethnic communities so it just didn’t compute. Similarly, the term “Paddy Wagon” never struck me as being anything other than a silly way to say police wagon - the equivalent of hoosegow for jail. We used “gypped” back when a gypsy was another word for fortune teller. I never, as a kid, knew that the Roma existed and we certainly didn’t have a Roma population where I grew up. The key is that I accepted that they aren’t nice terms and stopped using them rather than claiming that I don’t mean to be negative. We do have large Japanese and Chinese populations here and have for a long, long time, so derogatory terms referencing the Japanese or Chinese were obvious to me as wrong even as a child. </p>
<p>“Ellis Island officials DID change surnames. A onetime classmate had Finnish ancestry but the official couldn’t figure out the ancestor’s name spelling so he was asked his father’s name and became ----son, not a Finnish end to names.”</p>
<p>Again, this is urban lore. The officials at Ellis Island didn’t HAVE to figure out ancestors’ name spellings because all they were doing was checking the name off a ship manifest that had been created in the old country at the point of embarkation. (Now, a mistake could have been made in the old country. That’s certainly possible.) They had speakers of all different languages on hand at Ellis Island, and if there was a communication problem, they held the person til they called over the relevant interpreter. </p>
<p>If you go to Ellis Island, the researchers there will pound this into your head - and rightly so, they’re tired of the myth. Every single authentic / reputable genealogy site, like ancestry.com, genealogy.com, jewishgen.org, etc. says this too. When will people stop repeating this myth?</p>
<p>“btw- I researched Poland several months ago and discovered the Poles were good to Jews and had around 30% nonPoles living there until Hitler and the Russians removed people”</p>
<p>Wis75-I think you might want to check your history book again. Throughout the 1800’s, the tsars (Alexander, Nicholas I) prevented Jews from leasing property, from traveling, from working in certain industries. They were taxed more heavily. They were restricted to living in the specific Pale of Settlement, which (despite what Fiddler on the Roof might make you think) wasn’t romantic, but a tough life. There were numerous pogroms throughout the 1800’s. You can google Bialystok and Jedwabne for more detail; I have records of ancestors of mine who died in each of those. It wasn’t as though Hitler came upon the scene in the 1930’s and decided not to like the Jews!!</p>
<p>Fiddler on the Roof alludes to the difficulty which was far worse than the movie depicts. In one scene, Tevye looks to the heavens and exclaims in refrence to the “chosen people” facing years of discrimination ": “For once, could you choose somebody else?”</p>
<p>There is a misunderstood interpretation of “chosen people”. Along with the Bible stories that people are familiar are commentaries that were passed on in oral tradition. One story is that the Torah was offered to all the different “nations” or cultures/religion at the time, but only the Jews wanted to keep it. Many years later, Christianity adopted parts of it. The meaning of “chosen people” includes this story. Judaism maintains that every person is equal. </p>
<p>It is also possible to not be religious at all, yet have Jewish ancestry and self identify as Jewish, making the definition of who is Jewish broader than what we generally consider to be a religion. </p>
<p>As to Wis75’s statement that no group should have preferrential treatment, most “preferential treatment” Jews received in history was not the kind anyone would want. It would have been nice to have been ignored, and left to live in peace. I don’t think having preferential treatment is always desirable. On the other hand, being considerate of others- everyone- is often a good thing. </p>
<p>“Chosen,” as in chosen to be an example to the other nations, not as in chosen for preferential treatment!</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, fyi, the Bialystok pogrom was in 1906, not the 1800’s, just to be pedantic. A friend of mine wrote an award-winning short story, published last year, part of which involves the Bialystok pogrom: <a href=“http://www.tor.com/stories/2013/06/burning-girls”>http://www.tor.com/stories/2013/06/burning-girls</a></p>