is there a way to hide your real last name on a resume?

[lookingforward]

<p>General knowledge?
You can’t cite “general knowledge” especially when a topic is so roundly disputed. You can’t cite a forum. Oh, ok, you can, but it doesn’t hold. I’m sure it doesn’t hold in most decent college classrooms. Nor would I consider a quote from some NYT or USA Today or any other media article as evidence. Any info that is consciously prepared to present one viewpoint, claiming to be representative and universally truthful, working stats meant to shore up that perspectve alone, is suspect. Basic analytical skills. Critical thinking.</p>

<p>Your “stats,” btw, were edited from post 1.</p>

<p>I can’t believe as a CC’er you don’t know about the implications of affirmative action for Asians</p>

<p>As a CC’er? How [someone insert an adjective.] I’ll do you one better: just as hiring managers have weighed in here, and adults who have workforce experience, some have actual experience with admissions. </p>

<p>I am not disputing that prejudice exists. We don’t live in a perfect world, can’t even agree what perfect would be. Btw if you get your hands on the Esplenade book, you will see the acknowledged limitations in that study.</p>

<p>The Cornell report dates to 1994.</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

You’re saying that the San Jose Mercury News did a scientific study?

</p>

<p>No they quoted one. You can google the authors.</p>

<p>

There are subpopulations that have more
difficulties but take those out and look at the Chinese, Japanese and
Koreans and I’d like to see your statistics again.

</p>

<p>I’m Southeast Asian.</p>

<p>

Among the least educated Asian workers — high school graduates and dropouts — lifetime earnings are 20 percent below Whites with the same education levels. Thee gap falls to 6-9 percent for those with some college/no degree, an Associate’s degree, or a Bachelor’s degree.

</p>

<p>2009 data.
<a href=“http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/collegepayoff-complete.pdf[/url]”>http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/collegepayoff-complete.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

You can’t cite “general knowledge” especially when a topic is so roundly disputed.

</p>

<p>The SAT-equivalence studies are well-known on CC. You can look them up yourself. Or, just check the affirmative-action thread in the College Admissions forum. I don’t have time to cite them all for you </p>

<p>

Nor would I consider a quote from some NYT or USA Today article as evidence.

</p>

<p>You could you know, look up the author’s study on Google Scholar, especially since the author’s details were given.</p>

<p>Here’s a chart using aggregated data from the Association of American Medical Colleges-- <a href=“http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/TCeiDnAwwCI/AAAAAAAAN0A/13w8dYd0nMQ/s1600/medschoolnew.JPG[/url]”>http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/TCeiDnAwwCI/AAAAAAAAN0A/13w8dYd0nMQ/s1600/medschoolnew.JPG&lt;/a&gt; <a href=“citations”>url=http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/06/medical-school-acceptance-rates-2007.html&lt;/a&gt;. Asian medical school applicants have significantly lower acceptance rates compared to whites.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<br>

<p>No, I was citing this as general knowledge. I can’t believe as a
CC’er you don’t know about the implications of affirmative action
for Asians? They are well known. Race-based admissions is an “open
secret”.</p>

<br>

<p>The assertion that something is “common knowledge” is sometimes
associated with the fallacy argumentum ad populum (Latin: “appeal to
the people”). The fallacy essentially warns against assuming that just
because everyone believes something is true, it is. Misinformation is
easily introduced into rumours by intermediate messengers.</p>

<p>Many techniques have had to have been developed in response to the
question of distinguishing truth from fact in matters that have become
“common knowledge”. The scientific method is usually applied in cases
involving phenomena associated with astronomy, mathematics, physics,
and the general laws of nature. In legal settings, rules of evidence
generally exclude hearsay (which may draw on “facts” someone believes
to be “common knowledge”).</p>

<p>– Wikipedia</p>

<br>

<p>(Affirmative action in the United States - Wikipedia, the free
encyclopedia)</p>

<br>

<p>Well, I suppose that that piece of data might be useful if the only
criteria for college admissions was the SAT.</p>

<br>

<p>Ridiculous. He did not quote “alternate stats” – he quoted income
data. Income data does not disprove discrimination</p>

<br>

<p>In general, the burden of proof falls upon the person claiming
something.</p>

<p>When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the
person asserting a claim. “If this responsibility or burden of proof
is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is
committed”.[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical
or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to
this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential
standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or
community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in
question.[2][3]</p>

<p>– Wikipedia</p>

<p>It is your responsibility to prove your point. I need only find
something that argues against your point. You did not prove your
point; neither do I have to disprove it - a counterexample should
suffice.</p>

<br>

<p>If you actually read the article I posted in response, I pointed out
that “Asian-Americans still bump into the glass ceiling, receive
lower pay even with the same qualifications, and have higher poverty
rates.” Did you read the article?</p>

<br>

<p>Your article was garbage. And old, stinky garbage at that.</p>

<br>

<p>A fully-assimilated Asian American with the same qualifications /
accomplishments as a white person, receives lower income and pay, or
a worse job. If the group has a higher income than the population
average, this does not mean discrimination does not exist, it also
suggests that they work harder.</p>

<br>

<p>Please provide statistics to backup your claim.</p>

<br>

<p>Might I also point out the fallacy of using median income to represent
the whole group?</p>

<br>

<p>Please show me the wikipedia citation for your claim.</p>

<br>

<p>Tax and Race: the Impact on Asian Americans - Race, Racism and the Law</p>

<br>

<p>The article that you linked to does not provide citations. Did you
review the citations? There are a lot of articles that I don’t take at
face value. I have examined research papers before, even by department
heads at law schools and have found errors in citations that are
nested to several levels. Yes, this means that all of the nested
papers are erroneous. That’s one problem with modern research - one
mistake can get propagated into a bunch of other papers. The idea of
peer-review is supposed to decrease the possibility for errors but
that sometimes doesn’t work well when your peers agree with your
predetermined conclusions.</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

One of my nieces is starting med school at Penn shortly. She was
accepted to a few other schools with full rides. My son works for an
Asian guy that has a Phd and an Md and he also teaches at Harvard.
I wonder if he feels any discrimination. One of the guys that I work
with has an Indian wife and she’s a pediatrician. They built their
million dollar home back in the 1990s when a million was a lot.

</p>

<p>You are citing exceptional individuals to illustrate a rule?</p>

<p>In this society, a white person can accomplish the same income and acceptance rates as Asians without having to be as qualified.</p>

<p>

I work in a field with MANY Asians. Who are proud of their heritage, work hard, and are rewarded with success proportional to their work ethic and qualifications, just like anyone else.

</p>

<p>Have you actually done a statistical test or are you speaking from anecdote? Have you quantitatively measured their success? Have you controlled for their qualifications?</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

The fallacy essentially warns against assuming that just
because everyone believes something is true, it is. Misinformation is
easily introduced into rumours by intermediate messengers.

</p>

<p>Oh please, I am not citing general knowledge as my source, thus I am not using it as a fallacy. I am saying you can easily find these other sources on CC, but I am simply too astonished at CC’ers hiding underneath the rock to dig up these discussions I have followed for ages. Yes, I can dig them up from my CC emails but the time I do there will be 20 replies to this thread.</p>

<p>I can suggest a prominent CC moderator whom you can ask for sources – tokenadult.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<br>

<p>In 1973, AAPI males had a disproportionately low ratio of managers
to employees. Four out of 64 AAPI employees, or 6.3 percent, were
managers. By contrast, the ratio given for “non-minority males” was
higher, 194 out of 1295, or 15 percent. At that time, AAPI employees
in general were 5 percent of the workforce, but only 2 percent of
management. A comparison of AAPI males to white males, based on
highest educational level achieved (i.e. technical, B.S., Masters,
Ph.D. degrees) showed that AAPI males occupied lower pay grades than
their white male counterparts despite having the same educational
level and having more work experience. As stated in the summary
report for 1973: “American-Asians are approximately one grade lower
than the white male in each category. Moreover, American-Asians with
M.S. and Ph.D. degrees are at a lower grade than whites with
B.S. degrees… Except at the B.S. Level, the American-Asians have
more work experience.”</p>

<br>

<p>Did they ask the Asians if they wanted to be managers?</p>

<p>Our group got a new manager above our current manager about a decade
ago. This new manager asked us all individually if we were interested
in management. There were two whites and three chinese. Everyone said
no except for one of the whites. The rest didn’t want the additional
stress levels of being a manager (I had been a manager before).</p>

<br>

<p>In terms of overall workforce parity, Asian Americans were described
as “worse off today than during the mid-1980’s,” with fewer
departments meeting parity in 1992 than in 1985 and 1988.</p>

<br>

<p>This report is from 1994. Can you find something in this century?</p>

<br>

<p>No they quoted one. You can google the authors.</p>

<br>

<p>You posted the article as evidence. The article is not a scientific
research study. I find that newspapers often mangle the finding of
research studies. At any rate, you bear the burden of proof for coming
up with the original study.</p>

<br>

<p>I’m Southeast Asian.</p>

<br>

<p>Well, which one?</p>

<br>

<p>Among the least educated Asian workers — high school graduates and
dropouts — lifetime earnings are 20 percent below Whites with the same
education levels. Thee gap falls to 6-9 percent for those with some
college/no degree, an Associate’s degree, or a Bachelor’s degree.</p>

<br>

<p>Are these native-born or immigrants?</p>

<p>Not that these arguments matter because you’re getting your graduate
degree and your paper says that:</p>

<p>[However, among those with graduate degrees, Asian workers have higher
lifetime earnings than Whites.]</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>Here, since you don’t like some of my other studies (which I quoted from Google-- btw, this thread is just to show a general truth to illustrate my dilemma, not a rigourous refworks project), here are more:</p>

<p>

Despite findings from the age-earnings profiles, however, past research has found that there still seems to be a wage gap between Asian Americans and natives. Studies suggest that Asian immigrants’ earnings are about 75% of native-born white Americans’ earnings (Min, 2006); mass media reports also show that Asian American men are paid up to 29% less than equally qualified white males (Debusmann, Jr., 2010).

</p>

<p><a href=“http://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1375&context=parkplace[/url]”>http://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1375&context=parkplace&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

This report is from 1994. Can you find something in this century?

</p>

<p>I first came here in 1995. I can assure you, the status of Asian Americans have not changed much since then. Discrimination is unlikely to change drastically in 20 years. </p>

<p>Here’s a University of Toronto study – and Canadian society, being a close Anglo-Saxon neighbour, isn’t very different from American society so it is quite representative:</p>

<p><a href=“http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~oreo/research/compositions/why_do_skilled_immigrants_struggle_in_the_labour_market.pdf[/url]”>http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~oreo/research/compositions/why_do_skilled_immigrants_struggle_in_the_labour_market.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And here’s [an</a> article that analyses the study](<a href=“http://superfora.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2011/06/29/learn-some-economics-can-your-name-affect-your-chances-at-a-job-in-canada/]an”>Learn Some Economics: Can Your Name Affect Your Chances at a Job in Canada? | Superfora).</p>

<p>

In total, Oreopoulos created five types of resumes in order to be able to pinpoint and measure what drives the difference in interview request rates.</p>

<p>Type 0: Anglo-sounding name, Canadian education, Canadian experience (surnames included Smith, Brown, Wilson, Martin and Johnson)
Type 1: Foreign-sounding name, Canadian education, Canadian experience
Type 2: Foreign-sounding name, foreign education, Canadian experience
Type 3: Foreign-sounding name, foreign education, some foreign experience
Type 4: Foreign-sounding name, foreign education, only foreign experience

</p>

<p>

How about if we compare all-Canadian Type 0 candidates with Type 1 candidates, who differ only in name (Indian, Pakistani, Chinese)? Care to wager a guess? Their resumes, on average, were virtually identical so call-back rates should have been similar right? Nope. The difference is staggering. The interview request rate for all-Canadian candidates (15.8%) was 40% higher than for Type 1 candidates, whose rate was 11.3%. Think of it this way: two candidates apply for a job. Each obtained a B.Sc. from University of Toronto and each has 4-6 years of comparable Canadian work experience. One is named Mathew Johnson while the other is named Yong Zhang. Based on his name alone, Mathew Johnson is 40% more likely to receive a call back. In his particular study, Oreopoulos found that a candidate’s name mattered considerably more for interview requests than education beyond a bachelor’s, knowledge of additional languages and extracurricular activities

</p>

<p>I’m not out to argue a scientific study. I’m just showing a sample of the massive evidence that exists so people aren’t like, “but are you sure it exists?” to me, when I ask for advice-- or to show to those that use the higher-median-income argument that it doesn’t allay my concerns about my disadvantages when compared to an equally-qualified white person.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<br>

<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>I also know that medical school admissions and college admissions
(grad and undergrad alike) have open discrimination against
Asians.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>One of my nieces is starting med school at Penn shortly. She was
accepted to a few other schools with full rides. My son works for
an Asian guy that has a Phd and an Md and he also teaches at
Harvard. I wonder if he feels any discrimination. One of the
guys that I work with has an Indian wife and she’s a
pediatrician. They built their million dollar home back in the
1990s when a million was a lot.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>You are citing exceptional individuals to illustrate a rule?</p>

<br>

<p>You made a claim or forall statement. One only need show a
counterexample to disprove a forall statement.</p>

<br>

<p>In this society, a white person can accomplish the same income and
acceptance rates as Asians without having to be as qualified.</p>

<br>

<p>Do a little reading up on poverty. You might find that there’s a ton
of poverty with enough to go around for all races.</p>

<br>

<p>Oh please, I am not citing general knowledge as my source, thus I am
not using it as a fallacy. I am saying you can easily find these
other sources on CC, but I am simply too astonished at CC’ers hiding
underneath the rock to dig up these discussions I have followed for
ages. Yes, I can dig them up from my CC emails but the time I do
there will be 20 replies to this thread.</p>

<br>

<p>You bear the burden of proof for something that others find hard to
believe. So do a little research work (you did do that in Writing
101, right) to back up your claims.</p>

<br>

<p>I can suggest a prominent CC moderator whom you can ask for sources –
tokenadult.</p>

<br>

<p>Volunteering someone else to do your work for you is unbecoming.</p>

<p>Would you use that approach on a school paper?</p>

<br>

<p>Despite findings from the age-earnings profiles, however, past
research has found that there still seems to be a wage gap between
Asian Americans and natives. Studies suggest that Asian immigrants’
earnings are about 75% of native-born white Americans’ earnings
(Min, 2006); mass media reports also show that Asian American men
are paid up to 29% less than equally qualified white males
(Debusmann, Jr., 2010).</p>

<br>

<p>At some point in life, you’ll learn that qualifications aren’t the
end-all to life. Sometimes it does come down to how much beer you
drank in college.</p>

<p>The other problem with your citing this study is that it compares
immigrants with natives.</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

You made a claim or forall statement. One only need show a
counterexample to disprove a forall statement.

</p>

<p>How does that disprove my statement? I’m not saying every Asian American is less successful than the lowest white American. I am saying Asian Americans face a marginal disadvantage (marginal in the mathematical/economics sense) in the workplace and in income, per unit of qualification/accomplishment/education. So even if Asians have a higher overall income or have many accomplishments it doesn’t answer the problem of a lower marginal rate.</p>

<p>I’m concerned about this lower marginal rate. I am wondering what measures I can take so I don’t have to work doubly hard as white people in order to achieve the same level of comfort or success.</p>

<p>(This is like basic calculus?)</p>

<p>That you know of an Asian who got into three medical schools or turned out to have a great job isn’t a counterexample against this disadvantage. Duh. This is not unlike using a “but I have a black friend…” argument.</p>

<p>

Volunteering someone else to do your work for you is unbecoming.</p>

<p>Would you use that approach on a school paper?

</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>I’m not publishing a study geez. I’m asking for advice. Who ever said I had to do this much work to show that my concerns aren’t unjustified? This is not an academic seminar-- people who don’t know about these popular CC topics should look them up themselves, or else simply shouldn’t participate in the discussion. If you think about it, I shouldn’t do their work for them. You’re converting this into an academic debate and that’s not the point of this thread at all. I’m asking for advice on how to deal with my Asian name. I’m citing some studies to show my concerns are real. They don’t have to be very rigourous, only more rigourous than the opposing evidence and so far you haven’t given any. I have been doing all the work in this discussion if you think about it. Do you have any counterstudies of your own?</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

The other problem with your citing this study is that it compares
immigrants with natives.

</p>

<p>Why is that a problem? Why do I have to show that it exists for natives? I’m an immigrant with a green card. I’m actually a third culture kid. I speak English fluently, so it is my native language (or 1.3rd language, since Singlish is my first).</p>

<p>And by the way, if you look at the University of Toronto study, the discrepancy between fully-assimilated Asians and whites is ~40% in terms of callback rate.</p>

[lookingforward]

<p>Honey, mark my words: CC is not a reputable source.</p>

<p>Racial distinctions, btw, were considered common knowledge- and are now scientifically disproved.</p>

<p>This isn’t sufficient, but I’d point out that, while Asians comprise roughly 4% of the population, (sorry, that’s also a Census figure not special interest,) they are 21% of the freshman class. Someone got bumped for that.</p>

<p>I did not realize you are a graduate student.</p>

<p>More words of wisdom: to appear intelligent takes more than making assumptions, accepting hearsay or opinion, then following logical trails to support your side. It is far, far better to simply refer to an argument or to pose a question based on reference to someone else’s claims, that to claim that work is definitive. </p>

<p>Btw, one of your links calls the Census data BC offered, “statistics.”</p>

<p>Change your name. People in the US are always reinventing themselves. Get the surgery. I hope, after you pass for White, you find your merit does the trick. </p>

<p>If it doesn’t, what will you blame next?</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>So you want to hide/change your name on your CV, because you assume that those reading it are racist; even though you like your name & your previous work will be associated with it.</p>

<p>Way to stand up for what you believe in.
:rolleyes:</p>

[BCEagle91]

<br>

<p>Despite findings from the age-earnings profiles, however, past
research has found that there still seems to be a wage gap between
Asian Americans and natives. Studies suggest that Asian immigrants’
earnings are about 75% of native-born white Americans’ earnings
(Min, 2006); mass media reports also show that Asian American men
are paid up to 29% less than equally qualified white males
(Debusmann, Jr., 2010).</p>

<br>

<p>This study is from Toronto. I’ve only been there once or twice and
don’t know the racial situation there. The study also refers to
another study in Boston which pointed out racism with black
applicants. Boston has had a history of racial problems, most notably
the busing incidents. The Toronto study indicates that there’s a
problem with Toronto.</p>

<br>

<p>I first came here in 1995. I can assure you, the status of Asian
Americans have not changed much since then. Discrimination is unlikely
to change drastically in 20 years.</p>

<br>

<p>Try that name experiment at Google, Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, IBM,
nVidia (which has a Chinese CEO), or any other tech company that
relies on a highly educated workforce. Even the defense companies.</p>

<br>

<p>Here’s a University of Toronto study – and Canadian society, being
a close Anglo-Saxon neighbour, isn’t very different from American
society so it is quite representative:</p>

<br>

<p>I’d take a look at the racial makeup of the two countries before
making that claim.</p>

<br>

<p>I’m not out to argue a scientific study. I’m just showing a sample
of the massive evidence that exists so people aren’t like, “but are
you sure it exists?” to me, when I ask for advice-- or to show to
those that use the higher-median-income argument that it doesn’t
allay my concerns about my disadvantages when compared to an
equally-qualified white person.</p>

<br>

<p>It seems that most of the CC-educated people responding to your posts
disagree with your assertions. The parents here have experiences with
their own kids on admissions, looking for work, getting promotions,
etc. Are you discounting all of that?</p>

<p>The current job environment is hard. On everyone.</p>

<p>Asians have it relatively better. The unemployment rate for July 2012
for Whites: 6.5%, Blacks: 15%, Asians: 6.2%. The Asian rate has been
lower for the last three months.</p>

<p>[Table</a> A-2. Employment status of the civilian population by race, sex, and age](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm]Table”>Table A-2. Employment status of the civilian population by race, sex, and age - 2023 M13 Results)</p>

[HImom]

<p>The people I know who are in the federal government are hired (or not) based on their qualifications and ability to pass a background check. You indicated that you interned with the federal government. Were your work conditions different from those of your different-ethnicity co-workers? My understanding of the federal government is that folks in the same classification and satisfactory work reviews are similarly compensated WITHOUT regard to race.</p>

<p>In general business practices, private employers could face racial discrimination suits if what you are alleging can be proven. As BCeagle indicated, not all people WANT the higher paying, supervisory positions. My S wants to be a practicing engineer & doing the work–unfortunately at he is a project manager instead (probably with better ability to transfer to private practice and higher potential salary but less “hands on” work). </p>

<p>Among our state judiciary, all similarly-ranked judges get the same statutory pay rate, again without regard to race, which includes many women and many Asians.</p>

<p>You are of course free to change your name, have whatever plastic surgery you choose and everything else you are interested in to see if it brings you higher levels of professional success, if you think it will make a difference. </p>

<p>Women have been discriminated against in wages for many, many decades. Perhaps we should all switch our gender to try to get parity? Following your argument, that would be the logical thing to do, but for some reason many of us choose other methods of getting what we consider a fair wage.</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

Btw, one of your links calls the Census data BC offered, “statistics.”

</p>

<p>Yes, but I pointed out exactly why median income data does not disprove marginal disadvantage (d[Advantage]/d[Effort] or dA/dE, so to speak).</p>

<p>

Honey, mark my words: CC is not a reputable source.

</p>

<p>I’m citing forums which host discussions which provide external evidence. Where did I say it was a reputable source in and of itself? (SIGH.) If you don’t know of these basic facts that everyone applying to college knows (which is why there has been TEN 70-page official threads on race and college admissions in the college admissions forum), I will try to point you in the right direction, but no one said I had to write an academic paper.</p>

<p>

This isn’t sufficient, but I’d point out that, while Asians comprise roughly 4% of the population, (sorry, that’s also a Census figure not special interest,) they are 21% of the freshman class. Someone got bumped for that.

</p>

<p>So what? Our acceptance rates are overall, lower. (See the end of post #62). Individually, we have to work harder. In colleges Asians are assigned ethnic quotas such that Asians effectively compete with other Asians for the same spots instead of competing with whites. (See [Race</a> Sensitive Admissions - Challenging Race Sensitive Admission Policies - A Summary Of Important Rulings | Secrets Of The Sat | FRONTLINE | PBS](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/race/summary.html]Race”>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/race/summary.html) for a list of academic sources.) </p>

<p>In September of 1992, the Department of Education announced that, from 1988 to 1990, Berkeley’s Boalt Hall School of Law shielded minority applicants from competition with white students in an effort to meet affirmative action quotas. Investigators detailed a system in which the school divided applicants by race and ethnicity and compared each applicant only to others within the same group. </p>

<p>One of many well-known examples. You can pull others from the “Race and College Admissions” threads in the College Admissions forums where many examples and external articles will be cited. (Newsflash I am not citing the threads themselves, in case there are some people who don’t understand…:))</p>

<p>

I did not realize you are a graduate student.

</p>

<p>I’m an undergrad fourth year considering graduate school, yes.</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

Were your work conditions different from those of your different-ethnicity co-workers? My understanding of the federal government is that folks in the same classification and satisfactory work reviews are similarly compensated WITHOUT regard to race.

</p>

<p>I have no complaints about the Department of Energy. My lab was mostly Asian, the majority of them from mainland China, actually, despite all the wariness against Chinese spies. I was just using it as a counterpoint to show that I did succeed when race was taken out of the equation.</p>

<p>National security / intelligence / military fields are another matter. Asians face strong discrimination in the military. (Danny Chen is just one example.) </p>

<p>

In general business practices, private employers could face racial discrimination suits if what you are alleging can be proven.

</p>

<p>Most of these studies probably submit a handful of resumes to each employer, so while they show systemic discrimination when aggregating data from many employers, they don’t statistically prove (p < 0.001) discrimination by a particular employer.</p>

<p>

The parents here have experiences with
their own kids on admissions, looking for work, getting promotions,
etc. Are you discounting all of that?

</p>

<p>I am not discounting their facts, I merely disagree with their interpretation, because they didn’t control for achievements as a function of qualifications / accomplishments in their comparison. That is, they looked at the overall success function f without looking at its derivative with respect to effort/qualifications (df/dQ).</p>

[BCEagle91]

<br>

<p>How does that disprove my statement? I’m not saying every Asian
American is less successful than the lowest white American. I am
saying Asian Americans face a marginal disadvantage (marginal in the
mathematical/economics sense) in the workplace and in income, per
unit of qualification/accomplishment/education. So even if Asians
have a higher overall income or have many accomplishments it doesn’t
answer the problem of a lower marginal rate.</p>

<br>

<p>I was responding specifically to your claim regarding medical school.
That’s why I quote someone - so that there is no doubt as to what I
am referring to.</p>

<p>The marginal rate really doesn’t matter for your purposes and the
unemployment statistics argue against your “marginal effects”.</p>

<br>

<p>I’m concerned about this lower marginal rate. I am wondering what
measures I can take so I don’t have to work doubly hard as white
people in order to achieve the same level of comfort or success.</p>

<br>

<p>Where did you get this attitude? Would you hire someone with this
attitude? If you owned a company and were risking your own capital,
would you hire you?</p>

<p>Do you know the statistics on unemployement and median household
incomes? The vast majority of households are not comfortable. I do
not get this incredible level of entitlement that you have.</p>

<br>

<p>That you know of an Asian who got into three medical schools or
turned out to have a great job isn’t a counterexample against this
disadvantage. Duh. This is not unlike using a “but I have a black
friend…” argument.</p>

<br>

<p>Logic is simpler than basic calculus. I recommend Copi’s book.</p>

<br>

<p>I’m not publishing a study geez. I’m asking for advice. Who ever
said I had to do this much work to show that my concerns aren’t
unjustified? This is not an academic seminar-- people who don’t know
about these popular CC topics should look them up themselves, or
else simply shouldn’t participate in the discussion. If you think
about it, I shouldn’t do their work for them. You’re converting this
into an academic debate and that’s not the point of this thread at
all. I’m asking for advice on how to deal with my Asian name. I’m
citing some studies to show my concerns are real. They don’t have to
be very rigourous, only more rigourous than the opposing evidence
and so far you haven’t given any. I have been doing all the work in
this discussion if you think about it. Do you have any
counterstudies of your own?</p>

<br>

<p>Here’s your advice: use your real name and lose the attitude.</p>

<br>

<p>Why is that a problem? Why do I have to show that it exists for
natives? I’m an immigrant with a green card. I’m actually a third
culture kid. I speak English fluently, so it is my native language
(or 1.3rd language, since Singlish is my first).</p>

<br>

<p>What an incredible disappointment to have someone with this attitude
from Singapore. My wife would hang her head in shame.</p>

<p>Here’s a thread on a student in Singapore with a much better attitude
in succeeding in life:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/home-schooling-college/1366264-whats-up-gpas.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/home-schooling-college/1366264-whats-up-gpas.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<br>

<p>And by the way, if you look at the University of Toronto study, the
discrepancy between fully-assimilated Asians and whites is ~40% in
terms of callback rate.</p>

<br>

<p>Fine - there’s a problem in Toronto.</p>

<p>Is there a problem at Google? Microsoft? Intel? IBM? Dell?
Hewlett-Packard? Pfizer? Apple? nVidia? Applied Materials? Gigabyte?
Taiwan Semi? United Micro? Toyota? Honda?</p>

<p>So do you really want to do the Michael Jackson thing?</p>

<p>The unemployment rate in Singapore for June 2012 was 2% and Singapore
has immigrants coming in like crazy. They just announced that they’re
building at least 20K HDB flats next year on top of 50K in 2011 and
2012. Sounds like a good place for a backup plan for work. We were
considering Singapore as a backup plan for work a few years ago.</p>

[HImom]

<p>Well, if you plan on applying for grad school with your new persona, you need to quickly do so before you make your applications or wait until future rounds. Many grad schools (especially those offering funding) will require you to have an in-person interview as well as whatever name you put on paper/apps.</p>

<p>Our S was also outraged about discrimination in higher ed against Asians (& quotas regarding them for undergrad education) but we told him that while he could feel free to vent about it, he has to work with the system as it is & figure out what he wants to do. It seems the ball is in your court to figure out what you choose to do about what you perceive as an unfair system.</p>

<p>If you interviewed for me or anyone I know and we sensed your anger and feeling that Asians are being discriminated against, I would NOT hire you and would NOT recommend you. </p>

<p>This rant thread could be much better spent trying to figure out things you can do to make yourself more competitive–researching in your field, publishing a paper, etc., instead of pulling the discrimination song & dance. The people I know who are doing great assess the odds, figure out what will make them more attractive and better candidates for whatever they want & go out & do what it takes. They have done very well with this strategy and it’s the best I can think of.</p>

[evitaperon]

<p>

This study is from Toronto. I’ve only been there once or twice and
don’t know the racial situation there. The study also refers to
another study in Boston which pointed out racism with black
applicants. Boston has had a history of racial problems, most notably
the busing incidents. The Toronto study indicates that there’s a
problem with Toronto.

</p>

<p>The study was done with employers all over Canada. </p>

<p>You’re being unnecessarily strict. If that kind of discrimination exists in Canada, it’s not unreasonable to anticipate it in the United States, which shares much of the same culture. (Do you dispute this?) After all, the United States had the Ku Klux Klan, and racial pogroms, and Canada did not. There are probably equivalent American studies too, which I can provide tomorrow at a more reasonable hour. </p>

<p>Also, it’s rather rich of you discount a study just because it wasn’t done in the right North American Anglo-Saxon city. I haven’t seen you cite any robust counterexamples, just your median income data with a flawed argument. Can you cite counterexamples that reject this trend? So far I have cited many examples all over the world of Anglo-Saxon societies (including US data in the 1990s) discriminating against applicants on the basis of their name or racial membership. You have cited zero counterexamples.</p>

[BCEagle91]

<br>

<p>I am not discounting their facts, I merely disagree with their
interpretation, because they didn’t control for achievements as a
function of qualifications / accomplishments in their
comparison. That is, they looked at the overall success function f
without looking at its derivative with respect to
effort/qualifications (df/dQ).</p>

<br>

<p>Qualifications and accomplishments are only one factor in hiring,
salary and promotion. There are a lot of people-type things that don’t
show up on the resume which can mess up the results of studies. Having
a beer with your coworkers or sending cards on life events or taking
a visiting employee out on the town on your own time.</p>