<p>Zoosermom - your gal should NOT be in an advanced (300) chem class - since she has only had chem as a freshman in high school - seems to me that she should be considering changing to a freshman (100) class and it may make her have a much better experience. The bio I can understand where she has had AP bio - but definitely not the chem - get her to her advisor toot sweet to see if something can be done about this.</p>
<p>ALso - if her chem requirements are minimal in the grand scheme of things - maybe encouraging her that there is a light at the end of the tunnel may help and she can move on to her ‘interest/degree’ bio classes after this year.</p>
<p>I agree with Chedva and JeepMOM, it sounds like you D should not have been placed in a 300 level Chem course with only regular chem in freshman year of HS. Did she take a placement test? My D got a 5 on her AP Chem test, but still had to take a placement test. It was only after that that she was able to skip the Intro (inorganic) Chem and go straight to Organic Chem. We have a friend who’s D was very sharp (merit aid at WUSTL) but only had regular chemistry in HS and took OC as a freshman, it almost sunk her. She was unhappy all year and promptly dropped her plans for premed. OC is an extremely difficult class, and without the preparation of AP Chem, it can be a nightmare. Do have her talk to her advisor right away.</p>
<p>“Do I understand from your post that your D never had chem in high school and is now taking a chem class that is designed for science major”</p>
<p>She had honors chem as a freshman in high school and got 100 on the chem regents, then interned in biochemistry at the local college here for two summers. That worked out well, but this class is not.</p>
<p>“Did she intend to sign up for this course?”</p>
<p>She didn’t choose any of her classes, they were chosen for her. She had to take this course because it’s a required course for the bio major. She plans to major in bio, minor in education and become a bio teacher. She seemed to be liking the bio class a lot, dissected a shark and some other things and is happy as a clam, but can’t get her feet under her in the chem class but it is early still. My thought (as a non-professional) is that getting the full bio major with education certification is tough in four years so they may cut to the chase. I have no evidence for that assertion, just observation.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I don’t really have any words of advice beyond what others have already said–advisor, tutoring, etc. Just wanted to let you know that I am hearing the same things from my d. She holds a BS degree, but went back to take some sciences with an eye for grad school. She has not had chemistry since her soph year in high school (6 years ago) and is struggling now. We will see what the score was on her first test yesterday! She could not sign up for the lowest level inorganic chem since technically she had chem in HS. She could have taken the lower course for no credit, but didn’t want to do that and now it is too late to change.</p>
<p>I have suggested many of the same options to her and she has gone to some “help” sessions. She feels really stupid since she is almost 23 years old and is in class with 17 and 18 year olds who are doing fine. I have suggested to her to find a study partner and she is convinced that the other students look at her as the “old” person and therefore don’t want to study with her (I am sure this is not the case, but can’t convince her).</p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter. I don’t know where she is in school, but if it is one with smaller classes, I would encourage her to seek out the prof for feedback and help.</p>
<p>D is a second year bio/chem major What your experiencing is normal. I had daily tears on the phone last year. Many reassuring talks. Encourage her to schedule time with the professor. I don’t know how big a school your D is at, but when schools talk about class size and prof to student ratios, this is why. I had to remind mine why she choose this school and to use the advantages the small school had…face time with the prof.</p>
<p>Your D has chosen one of the hardest majors a college presents. bio/chem takes alot of work, both mine (S in med school, D second year) spend alot of time in the libarary, nose deep in textbooks. Both know their professors on a first name basis, the profs probably think they’re extended family… </p>
<p>Here’s what I did, I listened, I let her vent (alot) and then I reminded her how special she is and how she should not be afraid to ask for help, professors aren’t offended, they’re flatered in most cases, because the student doesn’t want to settle for a C. </p>
<p>Remind her that she needs to recreate her study routine from HS. If she was good at sciences in HS, it was because she studied. She needs to find the quiet places in the libarary at a least a few hours a day and communicate with the prof in person or email as much as needed. </p>
<p>Sometimes it’s different teaching styles and your D will need to adjust. She can’t be afraid to ask questions and get to know the prof and understand his/her teaching methods.</p>
<p>Anyway good luck and it passes, and I as used to say daily (still do now,but it slowed to one crisis a week, down from one a day) “if anybody’s going to be able do it, you can.” Then you can throw in a “your wicked awsome”, “double live gonzo”, “live at Bubba kan”… anything to get a smile… luck.</p>
<p>Opie thank you so much for taking the time to post that. Being uneducated myself, it’s very hard for me to know what’s normal and what’s not. I’m going to steal your words to ZG because she’s always been good at science and spent four years planning and dreaming of becoming a teacher. If that’s not the right path for her, that’s ok with me, but it seems so awfully soon. I think she’s afraid of the first test tomorrow and of her professor. She was the shining light of the science department in her high school and in our local community college. Her new school is tiny, which is why she picked it. I’m sure there’s help for her. Thank you again. Really.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, I was also getting panicky calls from my daughter about this time last year – she also had signed up for an advanced level class and felt she was in way over her head. Plus, in another class where she thought she had been doing well – also an advanced course - she got a low C on the first midterm and was totally freaked. </p>
<p>Well, basically I followed the same approach Opie suggests – listen to the vent, offer sympathy & supportive comments, & encourage the student to take advantage of whatever opportunities are there for help – my daughter ended the semester with an A in one of those classes, a B in the one where she had botched the first midterm. </p>
<p>Eons ago I was over my head as a freshman in a chem course, too – only I was at a UC campus where there were probably 600 students in the class and a TA for the lab who spoke no English. I got most of my help from other students, honestly felt the entire semester that I had no clue what was going on, walked into the final still feeling clueless --but somehow the answers “came to me” during the exam and I ended up with a B+. I did end up changing majors to avoid taking more chem, but it wasn’t a matter of not being able to do the work – instead it was realizing that I enjoyed my humanities courses so much more, and recognizing that my reasons for pursuing a science major were not really a match for the course work I would have to fulfill. </p>
<p>Anyway, at this point in the semester it really is part of the freshman experience. </p>
<p>Remind your daughter to get her sleep – especially if she is up late at night studying feeling really overwhelmed trying to figure things out. That’s when it is most important to sleep on things – sleep is actually the time when the brain works on building the connections that enable people to obtain new knowledge and skills. So if she goes to sleep and finds herself dreaming about chemistry, that’s a good sign even if the dream made no sense. (That’s probably why things “came to me” all those years back in the chem exam – I had given up studying in frustration and gone to bed fairly early the night before the exam). I’m just raising this because the one huge mistake students make is going without sleep and staying up all night to cram for exams.</p>
<p>I think college math and science present problems for many very bright students. The pace is quite fast and the teachers aren’t always the greatest.
I, too, would suggest a tutor. My son found an upperclass kid to tutor him in math freshman year and it was inexpensive and very helpful. Even so, he was getting 60-70% right on some of the math tests, which turned out to be As and B+s.<br>
Another useful thing to tell your daughter- at Rice they tell the entering freshmen that they may get lower grades in some courses than they would have ever imagined. The key remark, though, is “D” means “Don’t have to take it again!”</p>
<p>re: your post #28: you do yourself a disservice by describing yourself as “uneducated.” You may not have attended college, but it is evident from your many posts that you are far from uneducated.</p>
<p>Now you are doing what all wise people do when confronted with a situation for which you feel you do not have sufficient information. You are researching the options.</p>
<p>Your daughter is fortunate to have you in her corner.</p>
<p>NOW- with that said, our son freaked last year in the first few weeks of chem and calc. The pace was much faster than anything he had experienced before, and much more that it had been in HS, it was not just learning the material that mattered, but also the ability to put what he learned to use in new, creative ways to solve problems.</p>
<p>He adjusted. He worked his butt off! I do not intend to minimize your daughter’s difficulties, and her mileage may vary. But I do not think this is unusual.</p>
<p>And as Mom of WC alluded to above, with the curve, your D may be doing better than she realizes!</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for the support and information. I’d never heard of a curve before tonight and I suspect ZG doesn’t know what that is, either. She did see a tutor tonight and said that it helped somewhat but there is one topic she can’t figure out at all. I’m a little afraid that she’s quit on herself. Being over-shadowed by her sister, she’s never had the highest regard for her own intellectual prowess. The professor had a review session and a bunch of people went (there are 30ish in the class), but no one had any idea what he was talking about. Perhaps that’s hopeful for the curve? I’m just going to tell her to do her best, review the syllabus and see how the grade is arrived at, and to think about taking core classes rather than major courses next semester. But she definitely needs to talk with her advisor. Thank you again.</p>
<p>Zmom - just a head’s up on curves. Not all professors use them; they usually state their grading policy in the syllabus. However, I’ve found that most lab science classes use a curve. If your daughter is not used to being graded on a curve, then I’m sure she’s way beyond panic. If a professor flunks even a third of his class, it would sure raise eyebrows about his teaching ability - not that anything would happen if he’s tenured, but word would spread fast that this prof is bad news. I think what’s more common is what you reported - a lot of people show up at a review session (indicating a lot of people are feeling lost), still feel lost, a lot will get 50s and 60s (or less) on the first exam, improve their scores over the semester to maybe some 70s and 80s (the lucky ones), and end up with a strong B or low A in the class.</p>
<p>Have her drop one of the lab classes - probably chem - (Is she required to take bio every semester to keep her $$$ ?? What does she have to take each semester to keep the $$$) </p>
<p>Binx’s advice is good “My D has a scholarship tied to a major, and we asked her to stick with it for 2 years to keep the money.” My friend has a d who has a double major - one has $$ tied to it. She’s decided against that major, but will continue to do minimum required to keep the $$$ until she has to stop. </p>
<p>Tell her she is smart - just overwelmed - which is a normal freshman experience when taking too many hard classes at once!!!</p>
<p>P.S. Send her some chocolates (or whatever fav snack)!!</p>
<p>one of the BIG issues in intro college science courses is the competition, particuarly from premeds, many of which are repeating an intro course that they already took in HS as AP, and scored a 5. Tell your D to hang in there. Upper division classes have better curves.</p>
<p>Zoosermom - my gal experienced somewhat the same - initially a very difficult major - freshman year - Honors bio - chem (had tested into a higher than basic 1st year chem class uugh) - heavy load and overwhelmed - had a very difficult time in the chem - even tho she had done fairly well in high school honors chem - she struggled - got tutoring - study group - the whole nine yards -and we got those phone calls as well - but… she hung in there - knowing - finally - that it would be over at some point - tho it was a struggle big time for her. Adjustments were made for second semester that did make it more barable.</p>
<p>I wish her luck on her test tomorrow - and bless the curve - please let us know how she is doing.</p>
<p>One thing that helped a bit was that the lecture and lab were graded seperately but combined at the end of the semester - which is what saved her big time - she did great in the lab piece even tho she struggled in the lecture piece.</p>
<p>JeepMom, ZG’s classes are done exactly the same way and she’s in her element in the lab AND has a different prof, but the grades will be combined. You are all giving me a lot more hope. Thank you so much.</p>
<p>^^Tell her to hang in there - after her test - it may be a good idea for her to talk to some students who took this last year - to see how things worked out. That is what we did - even tho my gal found out that it was a tough struggle - she also found out that it is not the end of the world - but to keep trying - keep getting help - keep up with the study (support in numbers LOL) - just keep plugging away - not all things come easy and all that jazzzzzz</p>
<p>Your welcome zooz, gotta keep ya guessing about me.</p>
<p>Because of my work, my D can contact me during the day without difficulty. So I am always there. Last year, I was a sympathic but persistant, a “stick with it” voice in her ear. Sometimes our kids as young adults, need that reassurance much more than they did as when they were toddlers. </p>
<p>The hard part is not to get choked up with her when she calls, but to calmly give her your strength, that belief in her, that she mommentarily lacks. It’s the special super power parents have that gets our kids over a bump in the road. My mom had it when I thought life was too much, I’m glad she passed that power on to me because when I became a dad. there it was.</p>
<p>Wow, that was so well said. Now matter how much our kids seem
to exceed us in abilities, it’s our job to stay stronger for when they
need us. I like that - our “special parent super power”.</p>
What your experiencing is normal. I had daily tears on the phone last year. Many reassuring talks. Encourage her to schedule time with the professor. I don’t know how big a school your D is at, but when schools talk about class size and prof to student ratios, this is why. I had to remind mine why she choose this school and to use the advantages the small school had…face time with the prof.</p>
luck.</p>