@awcntdb It’s different when as an African American women you are criticized for having features such as big lips, but when it is on a Caucasian women it is considered beautiful. It is also annoying when things African Americans have been doing for years are picked up spun in a way that discredits its black roots. Google the Mac Instagram model “big lips” controversy where Mac posted a picture of a Black women with full lips. The comments were horrendous. Some even went as far as to say that “they didn’t know they were still testing on animals” or “I thought that was Jay-Z lol.” and all sorts of monkey comments. But I am 100% sure if that were Kylie Jenner there would be no backlash. Google the Marc Jacob Buns situation where Bantu Knots, a style African Americans have been wearing for years, were instead called “Mini Buns inspired by Marc Jacobs” which understandably caused outrage.
@CaliCash - I am not connecting your magenta sweater analogy with cultural appropriation. The sweater story and the argument over who was the first to embrace a larger read end is coming off sounding more like “I called dibs first and if you don’t give it back, I’m telling my mom.”
You are obviously passionate about this topic and I respect you for that, but I am not convinced this one makes the cut.
I am really trying to understand this issue. It was interesting to hear what the young man said about Native American/Indian headdress. It reminded me of something we have seen in NOLA while visiting. What about the New Orleans Mardi Gras Indians from the black community? Is this cultural appropriation or if not, why not?
It’s very intriguing. My kids also have had lots to say about this. It’s certainly something on their minds. I think that’s OK, as long as we can discuss it in ways that are thoughtful and respectful.
BTW, on a vacation this past summer we visited a museum dedicated to Native American /Indian culture and one of the presenters described how the community prefers American Indian rather than NA. And a friend let me know that the preferred term is Tribal Lands and not Indian Reservations.
Culture is pretty fascinating stuff. And young people are always questioning the order of things. But I do think that the young black woman crossed a line there.
37 - I actually agree with AW. Snow will fall on the Sahara. ;)
@CaliCash I say all involved parties are FAR too obsessed with a sweater - or a big booty, breasts, dreadlocks, etc. That is the problem.
Why not save the outrage for things that actually HURT black people - like lead in the drinking water in the schools, unsafe neighborhoods, unequal treatment by cops? Do you not get how you dilute the meaning of the word “outrage” when you waste time directing it to these things? These are the equivalent of first world problems.
“Google the Marc Jacob Buns situation”
Is there some kind of scoreboard in the sky where black people as a race need to chalk up credit for everything any black person ever did? Does that apply to whites, Asians, etc? Gosh, I’d think having a two term black president, former black secretaries of state, black Supreme Court justices, influential music and media moguls, etc would serve as mighty heavy “points” that black people can be highly educated and accomplish great things but I guess not, it’s all for naught since a fashion magazine didn’t properly attribute a braid style.
Just curious to those who seem to feel the fellow was being complimented for his dreadlocks (or for that matter the matter the Kardashians for their posteriors). I don’t think too many people would feel he would winning many beauty contests. If she had the right to be annoyed with him it would because he did NOT look good in the dreadlocks. I tire of the hypersensitivity that seems to be becoming more prevelant these days.
When people disagree with you, it doesn’t mean they don’t understand the issue. It simply means they hold an opinion that’s different from yours.
Women have been criticized for appearances that differ from the “standard” of the day for a lot of recorded history. Perhaps we could work toward not judging women by their looks at all. If girls are being told that having a normal figure is beautiful, maybe fewer women will starve themselves trying to acquire a Twiggy type stick figure. I wouldn’t be unhappy with that outcome.
Wearing dreadlocks is just adopting a hairstyle even for those who seem to be of the appropriate culture - it may have a cultural significance to the wearer or not. I have no clue where dreadlocks originated, but not so long ago it was mostly Rastafarians who wore their hair like that. Nowadays, most dreadlock wearers are not Rastafarian.
The girl accosting the dreadlock wearer was just out of bounds with her behavior. The dreadlock guy was amazingly patient. Still hard to believe the whole thing wasn’t staged. The profanity laced take down of the faux outrage was also a bit much and I don’t know that her origin of dreadlocks is factual.
"If she had the right to be annoyed with him it would because he did NOT look good in the dreadlocks. "
Whether he looks good in dreadlocks or not is simply nobody’s business. This is a free country and he is “allowed” to dress and groom himself however he likes.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim that it was wrong to instill cultural pressure for blacks to straighten their hair (etc) but it’s ok to instill cultural pressure for whites not to wear dreadlocks. How about everyone just leave everyone else alone? I may have private opinions on how a person looks / presents himself sartorially but guess what? They aren’t obligated to care about my opinion one bit unless they decide that they care about impressing me.
Even assuming dreadlocks are “hers,” so what? Does he need to also wear a big sign saying “courtesy of the black community”? People don’t get it. They don’t “own” certain things to be granted or withdrawn from other communities, whether that’s hair, food, clothing, etc. I can go wear kente cloth even if I’m not black, I can wear shalwar kalmeez even if I’m not Indian, and I can wear a monogrammed Shetland sweater with pearls and a polo shirt even though I’m not a WASP.
I think this discussion is lacking an example of bad cultural appropriation. Here’s one (in my opinion): when Pat Boone had big financial success from watered-down versions of Little Richard’s songs. His versions weren’t better by any stretch of the imagination–they were only more successful because he was white.
Elvis is another example (although, in my opinion, not as bad)–his promoters were specifically looking for a white boy who could sing like a black boy, and Elvis could. At least he wasn’t primarily singing Little Richard’s songs.
One step further (in my opinion) from offensiveness is Eminem, who was actually a really good rapper.
There’s an article in the latest Rolling Stone (which I haven’t read) in which Macklemore (sp?) confronts this issue in his own career.
Macklemore and Ryan Lewis wrote two songs about it @hunt. http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/01/29/464752853/i-guess-we-gotta-talk-about-macklemores-white-privilege-song
I. http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/macklemore/whiteprivilege.html
II. http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/macklemore/whiteprivilegeii.html
Since my mini-obsession is the Beatles, which of these represents cultural reappropriation that should be condemned -
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John Lennon singing You Really Got a Hold on Me, which was written and performed earlier by (black American) Smokey Robinson and the Miracles;
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Paul McCartney singing Besame Mucho when he’s not Spanish;
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George Harrison playing sitar on Norwegian Wood;
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Paul composing I’ve Just Seen a Face, a country song, when he’s not from the country but rather from an urban background;
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John singing “jai guru deva, om” in Across the Universe when that wasn’t remotely his religious belief;
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Paul singing “Michelle, ma belle, dont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble” when he’s just using French to, essentially, get the chicks, not out of any real abiding respect for French heritage;
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the use of La Marseillaise (French National anthem) as the beginning of All You Need is Love - again, not driven by a desire to honor the French
If you don’t want Beatles examples, then use Paul Simon or Peter Gabriel as examples of artists who have incorporated world music in their repertoire.
IMO, music belongs to the world. Not any specific culture. The history of music is borrowing and building and reinventing what others have done.
When it is all an academic exercise, some of the proposed ideas to just live and let live sound perfectly reasonable, simple and unfettered, and the best practice for a world where we are all free to put whatever face we choose forward with little concern for lashback, and no threat of being labeled or libeled as having crossed a line of appropriateness.
Until then, memory serves to inform and we are going to continue to hash this mess out with each interaction, in each new era, regarding whatever the next hot button issue which arises.
Don’t ask people to just treat others as you would like to be treated when the sting of how they were treated for doing no more than waking and leaving their home found them castigated and decapitated, hunted and humiliated.
The young woman was out of place. So, too, many of the “points” in this discussion.
“IMO, music belongs to the world. Not any specific culture. The history of music is borrowing and building and reinventing what others have done.”
Same can be said for art, food, fashion. Always has and always will be. What used to be seen as a melting pot, a positive, is now labeled as cultural appropriation even when the intend is not to degrade a culture but is done out of appreciation.
What SHOULD be addressed is a balance of who is in power and who controls the power, which historically has been white dudes. Things have changed and, hopefully, will continue to change for women, for people of color.
Hey, I agree that Pat Boone couldn’t even snap his fingers on the right beat to Little Richard’s Tutti Frutti. OTOH, Paul rocked both Little Richard’s Long Tall Sally and his Kansas City - in the subcategory of “early Beatles covers of black American artists”. You can also include John’s Twist and Shout in that subcategory (originally done by the Isley Brothers), as well as George’s Roll Over Beethoven.
Is this cultural appropriation or an equally valid interpretation?
My larger point is who decides whether something is cultural reappropriation vs valid (re)interpretation? I mean, we can all laugh at Pat Boone trying valiantly to do Little Richard, but why (seriously) is it any different from the Beatles doing Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Smokey Robinson and the Isley Brothers - except that the Beatles were more successful and went on to write their own stuff?
I think the groups that sooooo want to be “respected” by mainstream society would be a lot more respected if they just let their cultural contributions speak for themselves instead of proclaiming that they own them and hands-off everyone else without the “right” bloodline.
There’s a unique appropriation situation with music in the US written by black artists and then performed by white artists who made a ton of money on them…given that many black artists were not given the appropriate compensation for their own music, especially when white artists covered a song while the original was still out… If these covers properly compensated the original artists, the appropriation argument would be a lot weaker, IMO. And this was an institutionalized sort of appropriation.
Or in a slightly different situation, to use a Beatles example, George Harrison had to pay $1.5 million after being sued for copyright infringement for plagiarizing Ronald Mack’s “She’s So Fine” for “My Sweet Lord”. The money went to Mack’s publisher though, not to Mack’s (estate).
To me, the difference is that Pat Boone (and other cover artists in the late 50s) were able to make big money performing sanitized versions of songs previously performed by black artists only because the race attitudes at the time made it difficult for those black artists to break through to a mass audience. I don’t think that is what the Beatles were doing–they weren’t making cheezy, whitified versions of those songs. Their version of “Twist and Shout” is very similar to the Isely Brothers’ version (which wasn’t the first recorded, either). Also, I believe (I can be corrected) that by the early sixties, more black artists were selling records to wider audiences, as opposed to the concept of “race” records that prevailed in the fifties.
Line-drawing here isn’t easy. My instinct is not to put the Beatles on the wrong side of it.
Not that it matters, but “Twist and Shout” was written by a white guy, while Little Richard himself wrote “Tutti Frutti” and co-wrote “Long Tall Sally.”