Isn't college supposed to be about me ?

Parents Forum
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<p>“Financial matters were introduced into this thread not initially raised by the OP, who has stuck to his initial point of distance and security and sought advice from other parents in his parents’ generation… You seized upon the financials with a tone that is arrogant, condescending and would leave me feeling mighty beaten up, if I were in my 20’s.
So there’s a reality check for you.”</p>

<p>Have you read his posts? When I started responding it was with the thought that the parents actually had some money to present for college. They really don’t so I did spank him a bit. He needs to realize what’s being offered. Especially if this respresents progress over last year. </p>

<p>With all respects to you and nebcat, do the math for retirement. 30k in a 401k and 35 in equity are awful numbers for a 50 year old. They should not be offering anything. I’m in the retirement business and maybe you are too? You then know the score… it’s either time or money. Guessing by what little is there now, they haven’t been making a 6 figure wage. </p>

<p>Figure 15 years more working (provided you aren’t let go) and living until age 85. They have fifteen years left to cover 35 years of life left. They will carry a mortgage most likely into retirement (35k equity taint alot, in not a hot market state) and other debt. </p>

<p>I mean it is wonderful that they want to help with college, it really is, but they really don’t have money to do it AND have retirement income. As they close in on retirement would you have them place all their money in the stock market? They will need to protect what they have especially since they have no wiggle room for a down cycle, so a majority of retirement funds will be in the bond market, not the stock market. </p>

<p>I don’t know where the financials came from but yes, they did significantly change my pov about the poster. He shouldn’t be complianing about anything they are offerring because honestly, they are offering the food from their mouths down the road for him today. His daddy may not understand him and his desire to attend USC, but his daddy loves him. </p>

<p>What lays before him ISN’T uncharted territory, it’s been done before. I don’t mind if he gets a little ticked about things, because he needs to think and thank his parents for even offering a dollar. Because honestly, in finanical terms they shouldn’t. They aren’t doing what’s best for them by offering to help, they are doing whats best for him with what they can. Sorry, but the tone of his orginal posts takes a decided twist knowing a little more about the family finances. To ignore the family financials and present advice might make it nice, but it doesn’t make it truthful. </p>

<p>And we all have our condesending momments…</p>

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<p>"thought of pressing the “Report Problem Post” but instead am leaving that choice up to the "</p>

<p>you know, please do.</p>

<p>I am truly sorry you find some great harm in what I’ve posted, but I must ask…Is it a lie? or just an uncomfortable truth?</p>

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<p>Sybbie,</p>

<p>You are far nicer than I. Thank you. </p>

<p>“If you get the rest in grant aid, you should be ok.” </p>

<p>That certainly would be the deal breaker/maker wouldn’t it? That’s a pretty healthy If to come up with.</p>

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<p>Eh. Something got mangled in my post 76; I was speaking of a response to someone else, elsewhere, not the OP. </p>

<p>Sorry that DoP had to edit the message; my rant was a hypothetical directed elsewhere, provided for purposes of illustration only.</p>

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<p>OP,
I think that you may have misinterpreted my earlier post to think that I was somehow looking down on you for going to community college and apparently coming from a low income family.</p>

<p>However, I don’t see anything embarassing or shameful in what it appears that your situation is.</p>

<p>Indeed, when I taught college, I had many excellent students who had started at community college for financial reasons. </p>

<p>One of my best students did that because she had to fund her entire college education, which she did with loans, jobs (working up to 30 hours a week while going to college fulltime), and scholarships. Not only did she end up graduating magna cum laude from the 4-year public university where I taught, but also after getting national recognition in her field, she was invited to teach a course at Harvard. And she got her undergrad degree just about 8 years ago.</p>

<p>In my state, the lieutenant governor and several other top officials started at community college, probably for the same kind of financial reasons that you did. They now have law degrees and top jobs. I also know bank VPs and legislators who started at community college.</p>

<p>While there are people who think that community college is somehow only for people who aren’t too bright, that’s not my opinion at all.</p>

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<p>Opie, I really hate to say this, because you and I have been on the same side in previous posts, but honestly I think you have crossed the line here. Just what gives you the right to judge his family’s decision to contribute towards his education?</p>

<p>It’s not all about $$. Since you are in the financial business, I can understand why you see things that way, but not everyone sees it as you do.</p>

<p>Just to show another perspective, due to some failed business ventures our financial situation is far worse than the OP’s. Yet, it is crucially important that we help our son go to college one way or another. Neither hubby’s nor my parents EVER helped either of us AT ALL, and we now want to do better with our kid. We want him to have the support and encouragement that we didn’t. He has done his part by applying for scholarships and FA and he has been working part-time while going to the local cc for 2 years, and is now going to the local state school while living at home, he buys his own clothes, bought his own computer, etc. He knows that if the funding doesn’t come thru he will either have to live at home and attend the local state school, or take out student loans. Working full-time is not an option; I know that many students do that but I don’t want him to have that much pressure. I did that myself and it sucked. I want something better for my son and I am willing to sacrifice for him. Some parents ARE willing to sacrifice for their kids, and the kids should not be made to feel guilty for accepting it. My son has vowed to us that he will take good care of us when we are old and he is making big bucks. Of course we are not going to count on that - who knows what the future will hold - but we appreciate his good intentions and know that he would gladly follow thru if he is able. In the meantime, are we risking our own futures? Of course. But that is nothing new. We risked our own futures when we started our own businesses. It’s a risky thing and we made our share of mistakes, and industry changes sometimes affect businesses thru no fault of the buisness owners. But the bottom line is that it is OUR business if we decide to give to our son’s future, NOT yours! To be blunt: judging his parents’ decision is simply none of your business! I think OP has actually shown remarkable maturity in pointing out to you that you have butted in where your ‘advice’ was not asked for. He has also shown COURAGE in standing up to you.</p>

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<p>‘should’??? Since we have even worse numbers, I do find that a bit demeaning and offensive. It is not for you to say what OP’s parents ‘should’ do. Nor is it your place to ‘spank’ him.</p>

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<p>I regret that my lame joke for TheDad was offensive to the powers that be - I was just trying to make him laugh. </p>

<p>I still feel that the OP should take to heart the message that if his attitude is inciting random strangers to such virulent responses, he might want to rethink his approach. And again, I do not intend any disrespect. I admire him greatly for pursuing his education despite financial obstacles and I wish him well.</p>

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<p>I agree completely.</p>

<p>I would add, too, to all those who found OP’s title ‘selfish’ - here is another reality check: Guess what, going to college IS about the kid. Of course there are sometimes limitations, and of course compromises must be made. But ultimately the reason we help our kids go to college is because we want what’s best for them.</p>

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<p>OP, I hope you don’t mind, but I resurrected some of your other posts from another thread, but this time to demonstrate your MATURITY.</p>

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<p>(I did not search but found these quite by accident.)</p>

<p>Honestly, I’ve seen LOTS of seriously inane posts by kids on this forum. I’ve actually wondered how some of these kids even go to college. In his defense, OP represents some of the more mature of those I’ve seen.</p>

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<p>“I think OP has actually shown remarkable maturity in pointing out to you that you have butted in where your ‘advice’ was not asked for.”</p>

<p>I think it’s important for everyone including the OP to realize that if you post concerns on a message board with anonyomous strangers, you get whatever those strangers deem appropriate. This includes getting responses that you may view as off topic or intrusive.</p>

<p>This can happen even when you ask friends and relatives for advice, they may give additional information that wasn’t asked for. That info that seems off topic may actually be helpful because sometimes a person can’t see the entire expanse of their concerns or how things that seem unrelated really are connected to those concerns.</p>

<p>Any time you ask for advice, however, you can choose to ignore it and do as you please. No need to be rude about getting advice that you asked for, but don’t agree with. After all, even if people’s advice seems wrong, they still took the time to offer it, which was an attempt at a favor even though you may not like the advice or feel appreciative about their taking time to give suggestions. </p>

<p>In the end, it’s you who will have to live with your decisions. So, as some say, “Take what you need, and leave the rest.”</p>

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<p>Now THAT is some good advice!</p>

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<p>Lead,</p>

<p>“Some parents ARE willing to sacrifice for their kids, and the kids should not be made to feel guilty for accepting it.”</p>

<p>A little guilt helps once in awhile. Especially when he is being critical of his parents and their offer in their situation. We all sacrifice for our children or we wouldn’t have met up here. </p>

<p>What I’ve taken exception to is the apparent lack of appreication especially in the situation the folks are in. I’m sorry I will never support an “is that all” kid. They turn my stomach. </p>

<p>“In the meantime, are we risking our own futures? Of course.”</p>

<p>Are you having the same situation as the poster? Or is it different? Is your offer being gratefully received or accepted with protest? </p>

<p>“mistakes, and industry changes sometimes affect businesses thru no fault of the buisness owners.”</p>

<p>True here to.</p>

<p>" But the bottom line is that it is OUR business if we decide to give to our son’s future, NOT yours!"</p>

<p>Is this your kid? or are you personalizing the situation? I would like to think your child was just plain grateful that you offered to help. That was not the vibe here, with this poster. If it was, you wouldn’t have to write and be so mad at me. Read his tone about his dad. </p>

<p>“To be blunt: judging his parents’ decision is simply none of your business!”
I think OP has actually shown remarkable maturity in pointing out to you that you have butted in where your ‘advice’ was not asked for."</p>

<p>I am sorry, I think you’ve just personalized this. I hope to god your kid isn’t writing stuff about you like this if you are in a similar situation . I hope that your child appreicates your efforts. I just don’t think from reading this kids posts that he does appreicate what his parents are willing to do at a time when they would be justified not to do anything. </p>

<p>Would I have taken this kid to the woodshed if his approach (posts)was different? Yea I would. I started off much different than I have finished.</p>

<p>I started to see a real lack of appreication of his parents and after learning more, I did take exception to it. I’ve seen too many kids fail to appricate their parents efforts. I don’t care for the “Is that all” type of kid. They need to be on their own. </p>

<p>The girl at my d school who was extremely bitter that the BMW her parents bought her for college was a year old, not new…they need a flick on the ear. This poster is coming off the same way minus a couple of zeros. </p>

<p>He doesn’t realize how good he has it for parents, and honestly some here are letting him get away with truly selfish behavor without calling him on it. You can’t tell me you be happy if your kid did the same thing towards your help in the same situation, can you? He really needs to be made aware that his parents are doing a great thing. They are making a sacrifice for him, they deserve better than “dad doesn’t want me to go to USC”. </p>

<p>He has also shown COURAGE in standing up to you.</p>

<p>if you say so. I didn’t realize someone needed courage to deal with me. I’m sorry you feel that way.</p>

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<p>Would I have taken this kid to the woodshed if his approach (posts)was different? NO, I wouldn’t have.</p>

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I haven’t read or followed this whole thread, but this comment caught my eye because my son was on his own, supporting himself entirely, at age 20. He had decided to take time off from college after his sophomore year - and I had made it clear that I would not support him financially if he were not in school – so he went out and got a full time job. As long as he was employed, I was happy to allow him to live at home – and even drive him to & from the bus stop to get to his job. After about 3 months he moved out, sharing an apartment with a co-worker. He had originally planned to go back to school after a year, but after about 6 months on the job he was later offered a promotion on the condition that he sign a one year contract – he opted for that – and he ended up working for 3 years. He is now back in college, at an in-state school, working half-time, getting straight A’s with a full course load – and paying his own in-state tuition as well as supporting himself. </p>

<p>I never doubted for a minute that my son at age 20 would be able to support himself – though I do admit that I was surprised at how quickly he got promoted to a management position with a company that also gave him health insurance and a 401K. </p>

<p>Obviously, since my son is now attending an in-state public, this is not a neat little story where the kid ends up at his dream school. He has had to make some compromises along the way. But the point is – any reasonably intelligent person over the age of 18 who willing and available to work full time can support themselves. If the first job doesn’t work out, it’s providing experience that will help with getting a second job. </p>

<p>My son’s job required him to move a lot, and I think he has lived in at least 9 different apartments over the past 3 1/2 years, always with one or more roommates to share expenses - but at least 2 of the places he lived were actually nicer than what he had living in my home (bigger bedrooms, nicer kitchens, roommates who were much cooler than mom, etc.) – so he certainly was able to support himself and have a lifestyle at least as comfortable as living in his parent’s house. My son was also able to save a lot of money during that time – one reason he is paying his own way right now is that he had too much money in the bank to qualify for financial aid, so it made more sense for him to spend down his savings this year, so that he may possibly qualify for aid next year – and come to me for financial help only if he runs out of money.</p>

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<p>Well of course. That would turn my stomach too! But what I don’t understand is how you got that from what he said. I totally didn’t get that at all. What I got from his posts was that he didn’t understand why his dad was against that certain school and would not be open to discussing the reasons for his objection. OP was trying to reconcile what he thought was an arbitrary prejudice. In fact he seemed to make an effort to state that he was NOT complaining about the lack of $$ available. His issue was about his parents’ concerns about safety.</p>

<p>It was the parents who made the $$ an issue, not the OP.</p>

<p>That’s my interpretation, anyway.</p>

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<p>Our situation is actually far, far worse financially - we have some debt and NOTHING in savings. Our son is exceedingly grateful so no complaints there. And we are all in agreement about his options, so we really don’t have an issue with it. (Fortunately his #1 choice is UT Austin, which happens to be local.) My point is that I wouldn’t like someone telling me I ‘should not’ offer to contribute to my son’s future because I can’t afford it. What I am willing to do for my son is nobody else’s business.</p>

<p>A good analogy would be if our local college, the one that is his safety because it’s here in San Antonio, was in a really bad area of town. There is actually a private college here in SA that is right smack in the middle of the move violent area of town. It blows my mind how anyone would want to go there, but they do. And it’s an extremely expensive school, too. UTSA, the local state school where he is now attending part-time (while living at home) is in a very nice area. But just suppose the 2 schools were reversed and he wanted to go to the school that was in the bad area of town. $$ was not an issue because it was the cheapest school and somehow with FA etc. he was able to live on campus. Would I have concerns about his safety? Hell YES! Would he be likely to object to my concerns, the way OP has? Probably! So we’d be having a discussion about his SAFETY. But it would NOT be about $$. $$ would really have nothing to do with it. </p>

<p>Do you see the analogy? To turn that scenario into one in which he does not appreciate our financial contribution is simply not accurate and not fair.</p>

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<p>Yes I am personalizing the situation because our situation is so similar. And yes my kid is very grateful so don’t even go there. </p>

<p>What I’m saying is that I think you misinterpreted his vibe. Yes he clearly has some resentment towards his dad, but that does NOT mean he is ungrateful about the amount of funding. Every family has some personal issues. No way would I believe that every single family that pays for their kid’s college gets along splendidly ALL the time. Life is not always peachy. Families have arguments, etc. So the kid has some issues with his dad. That does not necessarily make him ungrateful about the limited funds.</p>

<p>I think you are oversimplifying what is probably a complex dynamic of which we have no understanding.</p>

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<p>It sounds to me like he DOES appreciate a great deal what they are willing to do. What he does NOT appreciate is their bias towards a particular school. Please try to separate the 2 issues for they are indeed distinct issues. You are jumping to conclusions that it’s always about the $$. There ARE other issues in life besides $$!</p>

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<p>That is the root of our disagreement. Please get that I TOTALLY agree with you about the girl complaining that the BMW was not new. Ugh - those kids turn my stomach too. The difference is I don’t see how you can put this kid in the same category.</p>

<p>Again, oversimplification. Just because the kid has issues does not mean it’s about the $$ or that he doesn’t appreciate it.</p>

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<p>Let’s objectively analyze what happened here:</p>

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<p>This shows his concern is about his dad being against his choice because of the SAFETY issue.</p>

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<p>This may indicate some undue control on his dad’s part.</p>

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<p>This shows that the kid IS acutely aware of the financial situation and in fact is refraining from making a big deal about it with his parents, in consideration of the fact that they are contributing. This shows OP is NOT taking it for granted.</p>

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<p>If the dad is not even LISTENING to the kid’s reasons, then the kid has a right to be upset. This indicates a family dynamic of poor communication – a very real issue that might have nothing to do with finances at all. (Again, separate the issues!)</p>

<p>In the very first response, the issue of $$ was brought up by a parent as a suggestion:</p>

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<p>And after that, parents pounced on the $$ idea, assuming that this WAS indeed the issue, and OP was put on the defensive after that.</p>

<p>…Then OP did acknowledge some financial angles to the situation:</p>

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<p>And this post sounds to me like he is trying to minimize his parent’s involvement and maximize his independence. I still don’t see any lack of appreciation here.</p>

<p>And a parents makes an astute observation:</p>

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<p>And here the OP shows some appreciation as well as delineating what his concerns with his dad are:</p>

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<p>…and here he makes it clear that it’s the ERRONEOUS IDEA, the dad basing a decision on false info or on bias, that is bothering him, NOT the amount of $$ the dad is paying.</p>

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<p>…again, the issue is NOT the amount of $$ or a lack of appreciation. OP has tried repeatedly to get the parents to understand that what he’s upset about is his dad’s closed-mindedness about this particular college.</p>

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<p>and here, again, he tries AGAIN to get us to understand:</p>

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<p>yet people jumped on him:</p>

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<p>The above post makes it clear the poster had not even bothered to read OP’s posts!</p>

<p>OP showed restraint and maturity in responding:</p>

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<p>and in Opie’s first comment, it is clear that he MISSED THE POINT:</p>

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<p>Opie, you missed the point, then took off on a path and never looked back. See, this was NEVER about his dreams and $$ not matching. It was ALWAYS about his parents being unwilling to discuss the safety issue with an open mind and then imposing their bias onto the son. Financial issues were deemed a very small part of the equation, yet the parents kept going on as though that were the main issue. And it just degenerated from there.</p>

<p>Still, the OP kept trying to get back on track:</p>

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<p>Yes, there are some communication issues, and not just in OP’s family.</p>

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<p>First, this whole discussion may be moot as no one knows whether the OP will get into USC.</p>

<p>In addition, none of us knows the full story. We only have before us the OP’s interpretation. We don’t know what his parents said or feel about what’s going on.</p>

<p>From what I’ve seen of the OP, as is true of probably most people, he does overlook some important information in communications. For instance, the OP seemed to be reacting to me as if I was putting him down for going to a community college and for apparently being low income, and I was not putting him down. </p>

<p>I also have noticed that the OP continues to cling to the idea that at age 20, he can’t send himself to college, which isn’t true. I’ve given him a long list of ways he could do this. Others also have given him examples, but he hasn’t responded to those.</p>

<p>A couple of things that I have noticed that I think may also be affecting the OP’s negotiations with his parents about college. The OP appears to see things in a narrow way, which would make it difficult for him to compromise. For instance, seems to me that he’s putting all of his emphasis on going to USC, while not looking at other alternatives to getting out of Miss., a state that he apparently wants to leave.</p>

<p>His narrow focus, which includes his apparently not paying attention to responses that don’t just have to do with safety and USC, also is preventing his finding either alternatives options. Right now, from what I can figure out, if he doesn’t go to USC, he may have to go to college in Miss., a state he wants to leave. If he thinks more flexibly, however, he could give himself other options that he may enjoy more than staying in Miss.</p>

<p>I also notice that he seems to think it’s OK to lash out at people when he feels misunderstood or hurt. I realize that some parents here apparently think that this is normal and acceptable behavior from 20-year-old people whom those adults regard as “kids.”</p>

<p>I don’t think that such behavior is normal and acceptable for anyone who is at least 14. I would have concerns about a person of any age who exhibits such behavior’s going off to an area like a big city where such temper problems could result in a tragedy. </p>

<p>I also wonder whether a person who’d justify going off on people on a message board would also do the same with their own parents. People who are near and dear have much more opportunity to get on our nerves than do strangers on an Internet board. </p>

<p>If the OP has had difficulty calmly discussing his concerns with his parents, then that also could be part of the reason why his parents apparently have dug in their heels about USC.</p>

<p>THis post was cited as an example of the OP’s maturity:
“Sure I have responsibilities right now, but they are nothing compared to what some older adults have to deal with. I rather worry about my friends and my school work than worrying about where I’m going to live, or if I’m going to have a stable job, or paying all the bills, or providing for an entire family, or dealing with other “grown-up”, boring things.”</p>

<p>I actually saw things differently. I’ve mentored low income, bright students who were sending themselves to out of state colleges that were their dream schools. Those students indeed were dealing with grown-up things that included: working up to 30 hours a week while going to school fulltime; figuring out how to live on their own as economically as possible; handling the day to day emergencies – car problems, for example – without being able to rely on their parents for monetary assistance.</p>

<p>Such students actually had less stress to deal with after graduation because then they didn’t have to balance heavy work responsibilities with heavy academic ones. </p>

<p>Such students also would have been unlikely to have said that their friends were among their main concerns. Paying bills, keeping a roof over their heads, coping with stressful work and academic schedules were their top priorities. They didn’t have much time for socializing.</p>

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<p>A suggestion to the OP: Undoubtedly, your college has a counseling center. Using that service to get the support and advice you desire now probably would be more productive than posting here. The trained professionals at the counseling center would know you in person and likely would be able to give you better assistance than can the many well meaning strangers here.</p>

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<p>Leal, that was absolutely spot on! I just want to commend you for taking the time and effort to summarize these posts, and your attempt to get this discussion back on the right track.</p>

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<p>Corona: Thanks! I just realized that hey, the OP is someone’s kid.</p>

<p>NSM: You’ve made some good points. I would only add that, just as it is inappropriate for a 20-yo to lash out, it is also inappropriate for a parent to chastise a 20-yo - as Opie put it ‘spank’ him, especially based on misinterpretations. It is also inappropriate for ANYONE to judge another family’s decisions without even knowing all the facts. It is simply rude to tell someone, kid or adult, ‘your family SHOULD not do that.’ Offer suggestions, yes. Make judgments, no.</p>

<p>I would also comment on your statement:</p>

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<p>Respectfully, I disagree. He didn’t reject them outright - in fact he said he would consider all ideas. He also stated that he is not willing to go $100k into debt in order to go to his dream school. That’s not clinging to old ideas - that’s assessing the situation and deciding just how badly he wants to go there. He has decided that, while he does want to go there, he doesn’t want to go there badly enough to go into that much debt. That sounds like a very mature analysis of his situation and assessment of his wants vs his realistic situation. It’s not our place to judge it. There seems to be a glamour placed on the idea of kids working 30-40 hours per week while going to school full-time. I did that myself and personally it was NOT worth it (and it wasn’t even a dream school). Maybe others think it is but imo there is going to be plenty of stress later in life and no dream school is worth going thru that. I’d rather see my kid go to school part-time while working and just take longer to finish than to stretch himself that thin and/or go into that much debt. I know people in their 30s who still owe $100k on student loans and it’s a huge burden. That’s just ME, anyway. Others feel differently and that’s their perogative. But we all have different values and shouldn’t project our values onto someone else.</p>

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<p>Maybe so. But then again maybe he was so busy trying to defend himself from all the attacks that he missed a few of the good ideas. Or maybe he is, as he said he is, considering all the options but just hasn’t responded to them all. Maybe he is thinking about them. Maybe he has already considered some and rejected them for some reason or another. Maybe he has already narrowed down his choices and just really does want advice on this one issue. Who says he MUST get his entire life analyzed just because he asked for advice on a very specific issue?</p>

<p>Regarding my responses to Opie et al: To many of us parents, this discussion board is a pastime - a time to socialize. We came here to learn about college options, but we routinely discuss all sorts of other topics. I think it is unfair to the kids to offhandedly jump to conclusions and give ‘advice’ when we didn’t even bother to read all the OP’s posts and make an effort to understand where he was coming from. To us, we might just pop in and make a comment, while admitting, as has been done on this forum, that ‘we didn’t read all the posts.’ I am guilty of this myself. My first post on this thread was done when I hadn’t read all the posts, not even the original one. Later I read them and modified my view. These teens do need to learn to not take everyone’s advice. They need to learn to be discriminating. But at the same time, if we as parents are going to give advice, I think we should at least take the time to read carefully the viewpoints that have been posted. This is someone’s kid, ya know. That could be our kid.</p>