<p>It’s not much quicker to drive from Dartmouth to a city with more than 1 million people, since Boston has considerably less than that. (The metropolitan area is over 2 million, but Boston itself, and even Boston/Cambridge, is only about a third of that.) But, yes, to a Westerner, everything in the Northeast looks pretty close to everything else. </p>
<p>If you want real you-can’t-get-there-from-here isolation, try Middlebury or Colby.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, Middlebury is actually closer to a large metropolitan area AND a small city than Williams is. Middlebury is just over 2.5 hours from Montreal (pop 3.6 million), while Williams is 3 hours from Boston. And Middlebury is 35 miles from Burlington (Vermont’s largest city), while Williams is 41 miles from Albany, NY (the closest metro area). Middlebury, VT, and Williamstown, MA, are nearly identical in population.</p>
<p>So isolation clearly is in the eye of the beholder.</p>
<p>Thanks for even more great input!</p>
<p>ps I only mentioned William and Mary because it was the only university we visited this summer that had that “small town liberal arts college” kind of vibe to it.</p>
<p>If you like a small town liberal arts feeling, then you’ll probably love some of the schools you’ve mentioned here. They’d also make beautiful destinations for a summer trip. </p>
<p>I think the sense of isolation depends on the individual as well as the location. Am guessing that for kids who ski or snowboard, the long winters at places like Middlebury and Dartmouth don’t seem all that bad.</p>
<p>Our S. chose a school near Boston in a location that most would consider ideal. He loves his school, but as a runner, there’s def. part of him that would like to be in one of those beautiful rural settings, with fresh air, fields, and trails. So far as a freshman I think he’s only been into the city once, though that will probably change as time goes on. Anyway, I think they have to see campus in person to know how they’ll feel. Have fun!</p>
<p>If you’ll be looking at Colgate, definitely look at Hamilton College. It’s close to Colgate driving wise and closer to Syracuse, NY (45 minutes). Same academic level. Of the two My D actually preferred the look and feel of Hamilton’s campus and the fact that it was closer to a large city.</p>
<p>Hamilton is much farther from Syracuse than Colgate is. It’s pretty close to Utica, but Utica isn’t a place in which lots of people want to spend a bunch of time. But I agree that if you are interested in one, you probably ought to be interested in the other.</p>
<p>I also agree that Middlebury and Williams are not so different, as long as you accept the propositions that Montreal is the equivalent of New York AND Boston combined, that north is the equivalent of south, and that the extra 100 miles or so you have to travel to get there from anywhere other than Montreal or Burlington doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t want to get into an argument about which is more isolated, but since you’re bringing NYC into the equation, Middlebury is as close to Boston as Williamstown is to New York City (difference is 4 minutes driving time according to google maps). And I don’t know about you, but I’d rather spend my days strolling the streets of Burlington, VT, than Albany, NY. And it’s those closer cities that students will visit more often. But truth be told, there’s so much to do on campus at both Williams and Middlebury that few students take frequent road trips to begin with.</p>
<p>According to Mapquest both Colgate and Hamilton are approx. 48 miles from Syracuse, NY. No big difference. Hamilton is closer to Utica (8 miles away) and 1 1/2 hours from Albany, NY. This might make it seems less “isolated” so worth looking at.</p>
<p>I went to Dartmouth. If I hadn’t gotten in ED, Amherst and Williams would have been my second choices. William and Mary was once at the top of my list until I visited, and then I knocked it off. Why did I rule out W&M? (Keep in mind that this was YEARS ago) I found that the relatively large proportion of Virginians made it feel more southern than I had expected, and I felt a huge gap between northern and southern cultures. Still, it’s a beautiful campus, not all that different from the others.</p>
<p>At Dartmouth, I rarely felt isolated. I could walk into town to get almost anything I wanted. The campus community itself was so vibrant that I never felt at a loss for how to spend my spare time. I think I went to Boston only twice during my four years there. </p>
<p>Remember, as long as there is a defined campus does not blend with a city, students tend to hang out with other students. They can’t usually afford to take advantage of all the events/options a city has to offer.</p>
<p>Some of my D’s most raucous laughter in the college search came from reviews of colleges that spoke of the rural vibe and the desperate isolation of some schools. When we’d drive up to a school D would read a synopsis of what others has said about the school and it’s surroundings. Living 8 minutes from the nearest unincorporated town (Post Office, 3 service stations, Shear Indulgence Hair Salon, Bobcat Video, and Mac’s Tire and Lube Center) we found the descriptions hilarious. (Hamilton isolated. From the window of the campus center room we stayed we could see Utica. LOL. 8 miles. LOL. Our high school serves @100 square miles and it’s not a big one. Middlebury isolated. Town right there and wonderful Burlington and UVM right down the road. ) </p>
<p>D ended up at an urban campus but not because it was urban per se. Primarily because it had access to great medical research and medical volunteer opportunities that some of the rural schools couldn’t easily match. </p>
<p>Like others have said , at D’s college : social life is the school and the school is the campus.</p>
<p>I apologize for misremembering the distance between Syracuse and Utica, hence Hamilton College. (Not to be confused with Hamilton, NY, equidistant from Syracuse, but home to Colgate University. Are those New Yorkers wack or what?)</p>
<p>I don’t apologize quite as hard for thinking that Williams is closer to New York than Middlebury to Boston, because I know how long it actually takes to drive from Williams to New York. It’s true, there’s only about 20 miles actual difference in distance. But the difference in distance-over-non-superhighway is closer to 50 miles. Nevertheless, it’s also true that lots of times the last few miles into NY will get traffic clogged, and that does make them more equivalent.</p>
<p>Anyway, I agree completely with arcadia that Middlebury is a great place, and that Burlington > Albany any day.</p>
<p>To chime in, my son is at Vassar. While it has one of the most beautiful campuses around, it is not a “small town liberal arts college.” Liberal arts, yes. Small town, no. Poughkeepsie is a small city which does not cater to college students. Life at Vassar is on campus (and there’s plenty to do) or you can easily take the train (about an hour and a half) to NYC. Kids do that now and again; it’s not part of the regular social life of most.</p>
<p>Vassar, like Wesleyan, does have a liberal atmosphere. After being accepted to both, my son chose Vassar. He thought Wesleyan had a bit more “out there” atmosphere, and he also preferred the Vassar campus. Vassar is artsy, but not very pink-haired at all. You wll see your share of piercings, I suppose.</p>
<p>We visited Amherst as well. In my opinion, it had much more of a prep-school atmosphere. Neither of my kids chose to apply. Definitely different vibes than Vassar or Wesleyan. We did not visit Colgate, but I would think it’s more similar to that.</p>
<p>I must be missing something big here but have to ask – for the price of traveling around up north why not just apply to all of them, see where your child is accepted and any relevant financial offers, then do visits with a clear sense of what’s actually possible?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Terry, Williams is the only one of these four that I have first hand experience with so that’s the one I’ll speak to. I like to think of Williams as insular rather than isolated. Williamstown is a pristine New England village surrounded by breathtakingly beautiful mountain scenery. It may not have everything you want but it has what you need – drugstore, bookstore, movies, several restaurants, barber etc. </p>
<p>The kids who like the Williams campus atmosphere, love it because the sense of community is so intense and vibrant. Kids stay on campus on weekends because they want to stay on campus. There’s plenty to do. </p>
<p>Someone who thrives on urban buzz – clubs, shopping, different restaurants every weekend – isn’t going to be happy in the middle of the Berkshires.</p>
<p>It also helps to enjoy snow sports because it’s a long winter.</p>
<p>Dartmouth, Colgate, Amherst, Hamilton, Middlebury, Bowdoin share similar personalities with varying degrees of insularity. I think it’s splitting hairs to argue over which are the most or the least remote; they are all rural, small town atmospheres.</p>
<p>Vassar, because of its proximity to New York, is a somewhat different animal both in location and in ambience.</p>
<p>I greatly agree with Riverrunner that a visit is worth a thousand words.</p>
<p>Why visit? For those kinds of schools, it might help when writing personal essays to have visited the colleges to have the “vibe” internalized. </p>
<p>Do check on their selectivity, though. That’s quite the list!</p>
<p>I agree therefore with JHS that perhaps pairing some schools is worthwhile during the visit, for example: Amherst/Hampshire; Vassar/Skidmore, etc. If D loves the region it would help to have some safeties, matches and reaches from the Northeast.</p>
<p>As lovely as Vassar campus and college community are, Poughkeepsie can’t hold a candle to Williamstown, Hanover, or Amherst. I wasn’t long enough around Wesleyan to understand its surrounding community, so can’t comment.</p>
<p>I do think it’s more important to love the campus of each of those smaller NE schools than to measure mileages to the cities. It should be a place you welcome for most weekends, otherwise seek out an urban campus, IMHO. Remembering “back in the day” I got tired listening to gripes from suburban kids from NYC who couldn’t see any value in our rural location. The missed a lot of starry nights, impatient to reclaim city life. I thought they missed the moment, often. </p>
<p>I was reading that when the small NE residential colleges were established, it was understood that college itself was the central experience. Today, to measure them by access to malls, citified bars and clubs puzzles me. And I’ve read it’s the parents who look for suburban/city amenities even more than their kids. Granted we don’t live in the l9th century but consider the original reasons for some of these residential colleges and whether bucolic afternoons under a tree aren’t special still. Kids will spend the rest of their lives in suburbs and cities, but perhaps only 4 years in a beautiful place like Williamstown, Hanover, and so on. </p>
<p>I still believe in all that. Am feeling uber-nostalgic tonight, not sure why :)</p>
<p>timed out: Amherst is more developed, in a terrific way with cafes, bookstores, and community-based institutions; plus it has the shuttle bus over to Northampton which is a small city (cafes along the street, renovated theaters…). </p>
<p>So I think Amherst has a somewhat larger and different surrounding environment than Williamstown, Hanover, Poughkeepsie and the others on the list. Amherst is listed as “suburban” although that doesn’t capture Amherst, either.</p>
<p>ALthough AMherst College has only 1800 students, it’s in a 5-college community of around 35,000 students, of which perhaps 30,000 are with UMass at Amherst (the rest are at Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Hampshire). That large number of students supports a lot of small businesses that cater to student tastes, all in a small New England town (Amherst) and nearby small city (Northampton) 8 miles away.</p>
<p>You need to use the PVTA system at Amherst or have a car before you can get to a more bustling area (Northampton, the mall, box stores) although they are close by.</p>
<p>Amherst itself doesn’t strike me as being any bigger than Hanover.</p>
<p>
Don’t know where you are in SoFla, but here’s a list of the airlines and destinations into Albany:
<a href=“http://www.albanyairport.com/3/airservices.html[/url]”>http://www.albanyairport.com/3/airservices.html</a></p>
<p>Continental is one-stop to Orlando and Southwest a direct flight to Orlando or Tampa. US Air is one-stop to Miami. Southwest is one-stop to Ft. Lauderdale. Albany is a smaller airport and easy to get in and out of for driving, pretty centrally located to the colleges you’re looking at. About an hour from Amherst, MA to the east, a couple or three hours to Colgate to the west (if you’re headed that way, you might want to take a look at Cornell too just to see the “gorges” campus 
). Maybe three hours to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Or you might consider Bradley airport in CT if you decide to blow off Colgate.</p>
<p>Agree with the desirability of visiting. Driving distances in the NE aren’t at all like SoFla. Everything’s closer. Good roads, lots of different routes but they go through hilly terrain and mountains. Feels different to a flatlander. You should be able to do your projected trip easily in a week. (You did say you’d go in summer, right?) If you plan ahead with plane fares, car rental, and motels, you should be able to snag some deals. Enjoy!</p>
<p>agree with paying3tuitions point: </p>
<p>“suburban kids from NYC who couldn’t see any value in our rural location. The missed a lot of starry nights, impatient to reclaim city life.” </p>
<p>This became a fundamental tie breaker on choosing which college to EA/ED for my d, just last month. She had to decide whether she wanted bucolic/outdoorsy or urban. Is there a perfect mix ou there? For exactly the reason above, we didn’t want her to be trying to find transportation to the greener grass every weekend. </p>
<p>That said, it’s still good to research how far the closest big airport, museum, concert venue, and so on are. My d wanted access to those things, even in the sticks.</p>
<p>Given the schools of interest you have listed (yes, that is quite a selective bunch - have a few comfortable makes and a backup!), here is a suggested itinerary. We just did this last year with our daughter - albeit driving from our base in CT on the NY border. They key is planing around the Interstates and back roads - some of which can get hairy in winter, but are a blast in summer. </p>
<p>Day 1: Fly into Bradley Airport (BDL) - midway between Hartford and Springfield, right on Interstate 91. Arrive late PM, rent car, drive to near Amherst, MA. Dinner in Northampton if the hour allows.
Day 2: AM - Tour Amherst College; maybe Hampshire College, then drive up I91 to Hanover, NH.
Day 3: AM - visit Dartmouth College, have lunch. Drive to Middlebury. (note - longish drive on back roads - bring maps. Take a short break at the Middlebury Snow Bowl (yes, they have their own ski slope). Dinner and overnight in Middlebury.
Day 4: AM - Tour Middlebury. PM: Mid-day, drive down old Rt. 7 to Williamstown, tour Williams College, enjoy that is arguably the prettiest small college town in the US. Dinner, and overnight there. (this is a heavy day).
Day 5: AM - drive to Poughkeepsie, via the Taconic Parkway (scenic road drive for some, or Nurburgring for others), tour Vassar College late AM. Enjoy the gorgeous campus, but town not so much. Note that there are malls nearby on Rt. 9 by the river. PM: to Middletown, CT on I84 to I691.
Day 6: AM - Tour Wesleyan in Middletown. end of visits. Drive up I84 to I91 to Bradley, return car, fly back to S FL. </p>
<p>This is a LOT in a few days, and breaks our family rule of “visit just one college per day”. But it is an example of what you can do in compact New England. Notice I have left off Colgate - it is way out there to the west, another 4 to 5 hours. Adds a big hunk of time and full day. Do also visit Hamilton if doing Colgate. You could wrap the trip there and fly out of Syracuse.</p>
<p>College visit vignette: Toured Middlebury with maybe worst tour guide ever, who took us into their gigantic spanking new science center and said “This is the science center - it’s really big, take a look”. (total quote). Since our D wanted to do science, we went back to look at the Science building again, after we lost the inexperienced, inarticulate and under-trained guide. Quite a facility - lots of space, and great views over Lake Champlain to the west. Wandering the halls, we were accosted by a lady who turned out to be a full professor and chair of the Chemistry department, who asked of our interest, then took my daughter (and us) into her office and quized / chatted with her while we listened, then gave us a custom tour of all the very extensive chem labs and growing gear collection. Showed us on her lab wall the class pictures of the graduating senior Chem majors for the past ten years . She could name every one, and where they went to Chem grad school or to medical school. Most impressive and unprompted “recruiting effort” we ever encountered by a faculty member anywhere. So after leaving all that, about 30 mins. down the road towards Williamstown I asked our D what she thought of Middlebury, and she said: “Dad, there is no way I am going to a college where you can see cows in fields from the Chem labs”. Oh well. </p>
<p>Enjoy your touring -it can be fun, and your kid may discover some preferences.</p>