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<p>What’s your point? If Palestinians want a state, they must inevitably recognize Israel’s right to exist. Why should Israel grant statehood to a bunch of terrorists bent on destroying them?</p>
<p>Go Israel. They are the only moral state in the Middle East.</p>
<p>Palestinians will never accept Israel’s right to exist because Palestinians believe Israel should never have been allowed to seize their land in the first place. The very foundation upon which Israel was founded is a shaky one and Israel knows it. By forcing everyone to accept their inherent right to exist it fixes one of their major problems. </p>
<p>I have to say, who was the ‘terrorist’ first, Israel when they not-so-kindly bumped thousands of arabs off their homeland for the taking or arabs for fighting to have it back?</p>
<p>oh, and mysterious benefactors was very sarcastic by the way:P</p>
<p>“What’s your point? If Palestinians want a state, they must inevitably recognize Israel’s right to exist. Why should Israel grant statehood to a bunch of terrorists bent on destroying them?”</p>
<p>It’s quite simple, really. Give the $50 billion plus the U.S. has given to the Israeli military over the past 50 years, the Palestinians could never compete militarily. They can’t build fences around their olive groves, or schools, or pediatric hospitals; can’t start major businesses or educate their kids; and can’t launch major military strikes against Israeli airports. So they make do with what they have. Propaganda for the rest of the Arab world is one of the few things they have, and so they won’t give it up. (Palestinian governments have said on no fewer than three occasions that they would recognize Israel’s right to exist when a Palestinian state is created.)</p>
<p>The irony here is that Palestinians have (or had) more in common with Israelis than with the rest of the Arab world. 600,000 of them are Christian (though 550,000 have now moved to the U.S., thanks to Israel, the majority in Michigan); their long-time foreign minister Hanna Ashrawi was a Christian as well, and Arafat’s Fatah was a secular government. But Israel’s long-term problem is not only with the Palestinians, but with it’s own growing Arab citizenry, which may now approach 20% of the population, and some people believe will be the majority in Israel within 2-3 generations. Israel has no constitution, one of the reasons being that to have a constitution would mean constitutionally definining the rights of the Arabs within its borders, something no Israeli politician has been willing to do. Whereas Palestine could have a Christian second or third ranking in its cabinet, no non-Jew has ever been allowed to hold high office in Israel. </p>
<p>I think the U.S. instigated the attack on Lebanon. They need a way to “draw Iran out”, and to cover up for the utter catastrophe for long-term U.S. foreign and military policy that Iraq has become.</p>
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Funny that you mention it, but where exactly were these fences, hospitals, w/e…before the Jews settled in Israel? The whole area was a desert! It is the Jews who turned this area into a Westernized country. About the Palestinian ‘refugees’, Israel did not kick them out. They were encouraged by the Arab Head Council to leave the territory (remember, this was in the late 40s, when the zealots thought they would crush Israel). Now, if you attack a country with twenty other allies and then get owned, don’t be surprised that that tiny country might have problems giving back ‘stolen land’. I think that US policy towards Israel is disgusting. On one hand, we do give them money, but on the other hand, we restrain them. Remember, we also give money to the terrorist states as well. The US should stand behind Israel 100%…its the only state in the Middle East which shares common principles as us.</p>
<p>It’s just “tit” for “tat”. The Palestinians make do with what “weapons”, political and otherwise, they have at their disposal. So do the Israelis. It’s just realpolitik. The same document (the Balfour Declaration) that promised the Jews a state promised one to the Palestinians.</p>
<p>I don’t think the U.S. “stands behind” Israel - I think it stands in front of it. The aid comes at a price. Same can be said for Hezbollah and its backers.</p>
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Well sort of… The Arabs weren’t forced out by the Israelis in the first place. Just think about the relative size of Israel and other Arab occupied lands. The Palestinians (I don’t even know why they are called Palestininans…the Mandate of Palestine was never a sovereign country in the first place) moved out themselves at the encouragement of AHC. The Jews got a tiiiiiiiny portion of the land. The Arabs have Jordan. So whats the problem?</p>
<p>moralstate? what does the mean?</p>
<p>one person was kidnapped and now it looks like world war 3</p>
<p>Mini posted: “I think the U.S. instigated the attack on Lebanon. They need a way to “draw Iran out”, and to cover up for the utter catastrophe for long-term U.S. foreign and military policy that Iraq has become.”</p>
<p>I think it must be very hard to live in this country if you sincerely believe this.</p>
<p>When do we relieve the “Palestinians” of their delusions? At what point do they join the real world, accept a state and go about the business of being productive citizens? It’s just bizarre in the extreme that we are allowing these people to waste their lives generation after generation. The apologists are doing the “Palestinian” people absolutely no favors. But in the case of other Arab states, that is the plan. The other states don’t want these pathological maniacs and are more than happy to use and sacrifice them for other ends.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I think mini has a point…could you ever admit that maybe Israel overreacted in this instance?</p>
<p>Yes it is hard to realize that we are being lied to by our government, that horrid things go on behind the scenes, and that while this was escalating over the last several weeks, it was interesting that our leaders did the minimum to say, hey, cool it</p>
<p>As for our country, go read the article in vanity fair about agent orange and vietnam…yeah, we have done some pretty cruddy stuff</p>
<p>No. Israel has every right to wipe out the terrorists.</p>
<p>
Sounds to me like mini is planning to apply for a teaching position at Wisconsin. Here’s your final interview question: “Do you believe that 9/11 was actually planned and carried out by the US?” Answer yes to that and UW will hire you in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>From Citygirlsmom: “zoosermom, I think mini has a point…could you ever admit that maybe Israel overreacted in this instance?”</p>
<p>Not at all. Their territory was invaded and living human beings were taken out. Unacceptable on every level. I also think that one must take Syria, Iran and “Palestine” seriously when they repeat, over and over again, their goal of wiping Israel off the map. Enough is enough. Either they stop acting like barbarians or they need to be pounded until they do.</p>
<p>“Yes it is hard to realize that we are being lied to by our government, that horrid things go on behind the scenes, and that while this was escalating over the last several weeks, it was interesting that our leaders did the minimum to say, hey, cool it”</p>
<p>I’m sure you are the nicest, smartest, sanest person in the world and the limitations of internet communication come into play, but some of your posts are waaaay out there and appear to be the personification of the stereotypes of “tinfoil hat wearers” and “moonbats.”</p>
<p>“As for our country, go read the article in vanity fair about agent orange and vietnam…yeah, we have done some pretty cruddy stuff”</p>
<p>I worked on Agent Orange litigation for many years (on behalf of the victims, by the way) and it tore my heart out for all of those years. I KNOW that our government has done and continues to do bad things, but I don’t think that truth makes it also true that everything done by other countries or groups is right, and your posts make it seem that anything and everything done in the world that would hurt the US is just fine with you.</p>
<p>We have taken living beings out of many countries</p>
<p>If everytime a person is snatched all out war is waged, we would have been bombed to hell and back</p>
<p>Israel did not need to do this, and how many people does israel have locked away with no trial, nothing?</p>
<p>this was a choice israel made, there were other ways to deal with the kidnapping, but this was a deliberate choice to escalate matters</p>
<p>But we will never agree because I think people and leaders should try and calm things down, but Israel can do no wrong, ever, ever in the eyes of some people, and that is just the wrong mindset</p>
<p>Every nation makes mistakes, every nation needs to temper itsefl, every nation needs to step back and go, are there alternatives?</p>
<p>You can call anyone you want a terrorist to justify anything you want to do</p>
<p>Israel has traded hostages many times, why this time, why did they not negotiate? Sure taken from their land, but heck, we have done it</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4619377.stm[/url]”>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4619377.stm</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4619377.stm[/url]”>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4619377.stm</a></p>
<p>ttp://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=12765985&src=rss/worldNews</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom, I don’t think there are any issues on which you and I will agree, but I think you are a very smart, informed person whose opinions are, for the most part, worthy of much respect. I am sorry if I offended you, that was not the intent, and if I crossed the line, then I sincerely apologize.</p>
<p>'No. Israel has every right to wipe out the terrorists."</p>
<p>Oh, I think they have much more right than that. Civilians are fine, too. Pediatric hospitals are my fave. </p>
<p>“I think mini has a point…could you ever admit that maybe Israel overreacted in this instance?”</p>
<p>Why do you think I believe Israel overreacted? I never wrote any such thing. Israel reacts to its internal pressures, and to its foreign benefactors, every bit as much as Palestinians do. And, yes, I think, at a minimum, Israel checked with the U.S. before bombing Lebanon, and the U.S., if not the instigators of the attack, are at the very least very pleased.</p>
<p>Mini posted: “nd, yes, I think, at a minimum, Israel checked with the U.S. before bombing Lebanon, and the U.S., if not the instigators of the attack, are at the very least very pleased”</p>
<p>Shockingly enough, I think you’re totally on target here.</p>
<p>“Israel checked with the U.S. before bombing Lebanon, and the U.S., if not the instigators of the attack, are at the very least very pleased”</p>
<p>Nope, not at all. Lebanon is supposed to be a showpiece for the Bush doctrine of democracy in the middle east. If the Israeli bombing causes the Lebanon gov’t to become unstable and/or go to Syria for help, it will be huge step backward. While Bush tolerates the bombing as a justified response to a provocation from Hezbollah, and doesn’t mind seeing Hezbollah get spanked, he certainly is very concerned that this will result in Lebanon, as a country, become closer allied with countries like Syria and Iran.</p>
<p>Good. Take them all out and get it done with.</p>