It's a shame that teaching is not viewed as a "real" job.

Parents Forum
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<p>It is very possible and probable that there are teachers on Long Island who earn 6 figures because the top salary for NYC is 81,212 based on tenure (22 years )and 30 credits above the masters. This is based on 180 day work year. they are paid over the course of 12 months instead of 10 so they collect their salaries over the summer. They also earn extra money, teaching summer school, coaching or beadvisors for teams/ groups and working after school becasue they are paid their minimum hourly rate based on their pay scale.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nycenet.edu/offices/dhr/payroll/ssct.aspx[/url]”>http://www.nycenet.edu/offices/dhr/payroll/ssct.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Teachers who were hired under tier 1 and are probably retired, under their collective bargaining agreement had the same pension plan as the police and fire department with full retirement benefits after 20 years of service (i beleive they are at tier 3 or 4 now.</p>

<p>Long Island and Westchester county teachers are higher paid that NYC teachers. </p>

<p>After the state allocation, the largest source of the money from the education budget in the different towns are property taxes. Since LI residents pay extremly high taxes, especially in affleunt areas of the island the parents are very vocal about the level of education and tend attempt to force out non-performing teachers.</p>

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<p>I think that the OP was talking about a perception–not his–that an Ivy league education was somehow “too good” for prospective teachers. Economium said, “I might as well go to UConn, they say, and pay way less if I want to become a teacher.” The arguement is that you don’t need what is purported to be the best education available, if you are “just” going to become a teacher, rather than a doctor or lawer, or other prestigeous profession. They think that you will not use that education when you are merely teaching high school students. </p>

<p>But that argument just doesn’t match with the facts. Teachers spend at least six hours a day, five days a week with America’s children. Their impact on our childhood and the formation of our lives is huge. Why shouldn’t they be the brightest people? Maybe it is this devaluing of our teachers that has lead to the deterioration of our schools. </p>

<p>The story of the wonderful teacher who created a love of learning or taught an important lesson is ubiquitous. Doesn’t that say something about the value of our teachers?</p>

<p>As Northstarmom said, “The average amount of total student loan debt that Harvard students graduate with is $5 k -$15 K.” Very few students, even those at an Ivy league college, graduate with a $100 K+ debt. Why, then, are the lower-paying jobs not available? </p>

<p>Also, and I am guessing here, wouldn’t Ivy league grads who want to teach school tend to settle in the higher paying regions? I would imagine that their competitiveness in the job market would allow them to get the higher paying jobs in the more expensive neighborhoods.</p>

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<p>There is an assumption that one can’t get a great education at a State school throughout this thread. Not true. If my child was certain he wanted to teach and we did not qualify for grants, I think it would be wise to consider whether going into significant debt would be wise considering projected salary. It would be wonderful if education required no cost/benefit analysis, but I think it does just like everything else.</p>

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<p>Tansaafl, check where the teachers in the best public schools in your area went to college. I checked this out for the last 20 years, at least , and uniformly they tend to be state school graduates. Many times there is a network in place. I know when I was in Pittsburgh, several top school graduates were unable to get any kind of teaching position in the public school, repeated passed over by graduates of the former teacher’s college or the state schools and a few other schools known for their education departments.</p>

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<p>dmd77: My WA district salaries range from 35k to 67k. Isn’t that the TRS plan 1 pension you cite? I’m stuck in plan 3 cuz I started in this state after 1987, so no nifty pension for me.</p>

<p>jamimom: Desirable districts have shortages for math, science and special ed teachers as do all other districts. Stafford and Perkins loans are reduced or even retired for teachers in these fields in my district.</p>

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<p>Excessive teacher salaries are partly responsible for the ridiculous property taxes on Long Island. On a typical $500,000 suburban home, taxes run $12,000, about 3 times that of most “expensive” suburban locales in the US. And I doubt that the teachers there are any better.</p>

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<p>I go to one of the best public schools in my state and teachers almost exclusively come from bowling green and Ohio state (both ohio schools)</p>

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<p>There is an assumption that one can’t get a great education at a State school throughout this thread.</p>

<p>No that is not true, everyone acknowledges thayt you can get a great education at a public university, and an overwhelming number of teachers have been educated at their state universities. </p>

<p>OP’s concern was that his parents felt it was a waste of time an money to go to an Ivy or an elite school if at the end he just “wanted to be a teacher” that she should just go to a state university. </p>

<p>I think the point that most of us are trying to make is that there is honor in the profession PERIOD,whether you go to State U, and Ivy or any school in between.</p>

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<p>Teaching can be an incredibly creative job. We have had graduates come to our school for one or two years to work as aides to see if teaching is right for them from places such as U of V, Harvard, Coby, Haveford, U of Toronto and NYU. Some really like the profession and stay a few years and then go on to get a teaching certificate through a masters program. Others move on. They come with degrees in Biology, English, Math, Art. I would recommend this for anyone interested in the teaching profession. Many international schools offer positions for graduates with a BA or BS etc. They are not teaching positions but give people a chance to work in an educational environment for awhile, see if they like it and of course see a bit more of the world.</p>

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<p>I asked a friend of mine who is on the administration team in our School District what they look for when they hire new teachers. She said the most important thing was their experience. Time spent student teaching and also what they do during vacations. That is, camp counselor vs. retail sales. I was concerned because my daughter was planning on attending and out of state school and majoring in Education. She said that while it’s true that they would be more familiar with the local colleges, the reason more teachers are hired from state schools are because more of those candidates apply. She also said to make sure that the state where my daughter was going to had a reciprocal agreement with Pennsylvania. We did and it does.</p>

<p>Someone on this thread mentioned how state schools are better equipped to certify education majors then private schools. Perhaps my daughters school is an exception but last year when it came time for accredidation from the State of Illiniois for their Education major program, her college was one of only two in the state to get a perfect score. They also have a 97% placement rate in that major. That’s actually employment or graduate school within 6 months after graduation. </p>

<pre><code>You really have to do what you’re good at don’t you. My engineer husband would make a terrible teacher. While I don’t want my daughter to starve, she’s someone that is so much a teacher, that it’s hard to imagine what else she would do. Besides, if she comes back home, the starting salary in our district is $38,000 and she could live right here! Just kidding!
</code></pre>

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<p>My son’s close friend wants to be a teacher. He is going to need a full ride to a school. He is going to need a paying job when he gets out. Through some unfortunate circumstances, he became an orphan while in highschool, and he was from an outreach program with a full scholarship from the onset as his family was low income even when they were intact. For him to take on a large debt from a private college that does not have an education program does not make much sense. To go to an out of state college does not make sense, as he needs to be state certified to get a job in this state, and he is not going to have the luxery of some kids of taking some time to get the certification after getting his BA. </p>

<p>Also, in my current school district and in a number of the districts that I studied very carefully in the greater Pittsburgh area, even with the shortage of math and science teachers, they were still hiring from the same list of schools. They would provisionally hire someone for those subjects and then pay for them to get the required courses to teach those subject. My son’s 8th grade math teacher could not do algebra and he was teaching Integrated 1 and 2, basically from canned programs. He got a highschool math teaching job, and had to go back to school to get the courses to teach. He failed to do so after several tries, and they had to put him back into the middle school to teach. All that time he was teaching highschool math courses at a “good” school district. He was also an assistant football coach for a strong sports district and they wanted him as head coach where he was hired for the math fiasco. I see this all of the time. Seriously, check where your district teachers tend to go to college.</p>

<p>I agree with Sybbie that state schools can be top quality, and for education courses, it is often the best route. Other majors that just don’t often exist in LAC or private schools like Physical Therapy, Sports Psychology, Pharmacy are best addressed in state programs. I am not disparaging these schools. I am pointing out that if you are looking to teach in a certain area as a public school teacher, you might want to look at the colleges where the hired teachers have gone. If there is a strong discernable pattern, you might want to think about it. A degree from Amherst is not going to be helpful in getting you a job at North Allegheny school district in western PA. They would hire the Clarion education major with the certification before they hired Amherst guy unless something unusual was happening. Especially directly out of college.</p>

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<p>Maize&Blue: this is the “official” state schedule <a href=“垦利奈堪教育科技有限公司”>垦利奈堪教育科技有限公司;

<p>Keep in mind it does NOT include any supplemental days that individual districts may offer. (Bellevue, for example, offers 10 “super-pay” days at about $250/day–but you have to take all of them and you can’t use leave for any of them.)</p>

<p>Under TRS-3 (which I agree is , the defined benefit for a teacher with 30 years of service retiring at age 65 (with an income at age 65 of “only” $4K/month) is estimated at $1200/month indefinitely.
<a href=“http://www-app3.wa.gov/drs/estimate/trs3/t3input.htm[/url]”>http://www-app3.wa.gov/drs/estimate/trs3/t3input.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Generating an income of $1200/month ($14,400/year) requires approximately $350K to $400K in capital, if you assume that you can get an interest rate of about 4% guaranteed.</p>

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<p>Kirmum, I never meant to imply that one can’t get an excellent education at a State school. Of course you can, and many people have. But you can get an excellent education at a non-state school, and those people should not be discouraged from becoming a teacher if that is their dream. And yes, cost is always a factor in college decisions. If one doesn’t qualify for grants, then the situation is different from the OP’s, who said cost was not a factor. </p>

<p>Jamimom: I will check, and reply later. However, I live in a rural, low-wage area, and I expect that has influenced the kind of employees my area draws.</p>

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<p>Sorry, I do not know the resource of the following article (copied in quotes below) . It was just interesting to me, so I saved it. Despite what we tend to hear from others, I never really thought teachers were paid that low considering their schedule. Plus, the teachers I know have shared that they expect to receive 60 - 75% of their salary upon retirement. Not bad.
So despite the headaches (all jobs have those), and considering all the intangile rewards, teaching seems like a fine career choice to me!</p>

<p>" In the 2000-01 school year, the average teacher made $43,250, according to the AFT’s most recent salary survey. By comparison, midlevel accountants earned an average of $52,664 and lawyers, $82,712.</p>

<p>To Podgursky, those comparisons are misleading because teachers generally have shorter workdays than other professions.</p>

<p>And typically they are on the job fewer than 190 days a year — or about 30% fewer days than an accountant or lawyer, even after vacation time, paid holidays and personal leave are taken into account, he said.<snip>
When salaries are computed on an hourly basis, public school teachers generally earn more than registered nurses, accountants, engineers and other middle-class workers, says Michael Podgursky, chairman of the University of Missouri’s economics department.</snip></p>

<p>The figures cited by Podgursky are in line with the results of a Tennessean report last month showing that Metro teachers will make $30.41 an hour next year during their 10-month contract — more than civil engineers, registered nurses and police officers in the city.</p>

<p>Some teachers also enjoy fringe benefits superior to those in the private sector. Under Missouri’s pension system, for example, teachers with 30 years of service can retire at 55 with 84% of their annual salary, Podgursky said."</p>

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<p>Another comment: Yes, if the state school offers the program and the private college in question does not, then the choice is obvious. The OP’s program was not offered in his state school. However, before making their minds up which type of college they want to attend, students should be absolutely certain that they want to go into teaching, and that they want to stay in the same area. </p>

<p>I think there are different situations being discussed here: that of the OP and that of several other students. Economium, I presume, wants to attend a private school, possibly an Ivy league. He (or she, not sure) wants to become a teacher after his education, and the program he wants to study is not offered in his state schools. Cost is not a factor. For Jamimom’s students, who also want to become teachers, cost is a major factor, the programs are only offered in the state schools, and thus their situation is significantly different. No one can make blanket statements regarding their choices or opportunities, since they are individual. </p>

<p>My point is, the field of teaching should not be denied to graduates of any college, regardless of the type of college it is. Any student deserves (for them, regardess of type of school) the best education available, no matter what career they desire (even though career plans may need to be taken into account). An Ivy league education is not just “good enough” for the more prestigeous fields, and is not a waste of time for prospective teachers.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.foxreno.com/news/3982124/detail.html[/url]”>http://www.foxreno.com/news/3982124/detail.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/opinion/10386072.htm[/url]”>http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/opinion/10386072.htm&lt;/a&gt;
recent articles about teacher shortages in California and Georgia. </p>

<p>There are and will be jobs, I wonder why the people who think teachers are overpaid aren’t taking them?</p>

<p>As for the work day. If a good teacher spends 5 to 10 minutes grading a test or paper and they have 100 - 175 students, how much time did they spend Saturday grading? I give my students my home number and regularly take calls into the evening. </p>

<p>Of course my life is easier now that I am only using uniform scantron tests that are all multiple choice. I have to sneak the more difficult open ended questions into the homework or class warm up for as long as I am allowed to still decide what those questions will be. </p>

<p>A good teacher needs to know and care for the subject, the students, and the craft of teaching. They also need the freedom to create creative, relevant, and safe learning environments. The NCLB act is killing creativity and interest in the elementary grades, it is beginning to affect the middle schools in California and is threatening to change the way high school classrooms are managed.</p>

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<p>“There is an assumption that one can’t get a great education at a State school throughout this thread. Not true. If my child was certain he wanted to teach and we did not qualify for grants”</p>

<p>If you didn’t qualify for grants at an Ivy, odds are that you would have the funds to get your child through the Ivy with minimal loans. There are students at Ivies getting need-based grants whose parents make over 6 figures. </p>

<p>In addition, there are programs like Teach for America that provide loan forgiveness or scholarship money for students wishing to go into teaching.</p>

<p>There are definitely ways that students wishing to teach can attend top colleges and graduate with a reasonable amount of debt compared to their future salaries.</p>

<p>An additional thing to keep in mind is that most students switch their career goals once they enter college. Most people also change careers several time in their lifetimes. Thus, picking the lowest cost college because a student “just plans to teach” may not be the decision that best serves the student in terms of their future options.</p>

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<p>This thread is really surprising to me and d</p>

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<p>“My son’s close friend wants to be a teacher. He is going to need a full ride to a school. He is going to need a paying job when he gets out. Through some unfortunate circumstances, he became an orphan while in highschool, and he was from an outreach program with a full scholarship from the onset as his family was low income even when they were intact. For him to take on a large debt from a private college that does not have an education program does not make much sense.”</p>

<p>IMO it doesn’t make sense for most students to take out huge debts to attend college.</p>

<p>However, I also would assume that a male, low income orphan who plans to go into teaching would a lot of options through outside scholarships and through need-based and merit-based scholarships connected with public and private universities.</p>

<p>Males are in high demand when it comes to the education field, and thus are at an advantage for scholarships related to education majors. Low income students from challenging situations also have an advantage for many scholarship programs.</p>

<p>Males also are in high demand when it comes to getting jobs in education.</p>

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<p>This thread is really surprising to me and d</p>