Ivy League(s) vs. Full Ride trilemma

<p>Top Ph.D. programs admit good candidates from colleges and universities that never even get mentioned here at CC. So don’t worry about UDel keeping you out of a good Ph.D. program.</p>

<p>Since you have a very clear idea of your academic goals, I’d suggest that you spend some time at the websites of the departments at each of these universities. Dig through the course offerings, and read up on the individual faculty members research projects, funding sources, and even where they pursued their own post graduate studies. Chances are that the faculty members are peers.You also should take a good long look at any information on undergraduate research opportunities, and information about where the department’s graduates end up. It really, truly, is OK to pick up the phone and call and ask. If they want you (and it looks like UDel really wants you), they will take the time to answer all of your questions.</p>

<p>Go to Yale. It is a bargain at $20K per year. Chances are you will love it.</p>

<p>Perhaps I will post this in the specific school forums and see what the thoughts are. But the general consensus here seems to be that the reputation and general perks of a Yale or Brown are worth the 80k and outweigh the scholarship from Delaware. Is there anyone who really disagrees? I know it will be a hard decision either way; my parents are ostensibly open to whatever I decide but I really feel a sense of obligation to go with UDel’s offer. </p>

<p>Also, your advice is awesome happymomof1. I’ve looked into those things a bit and will continue to do so. Its difficult to compare very directly, though, because none of the departments are directly analogous. While I do have fairly specific academic goals, it’s hard for me to pick which style program (Udel’s is based out of the math dept., Brown’s is through the computer science dept. and Yale’s is a more traditional bio focus but a specific evolutionary biology and ecology dept.) I prefer. And its tough to compare them rigorously.</p>

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<p>How much of the $80,000 would be debt? If it is all debt, that would be a rather burdensome amount of debt for a biology major (= low paid and/or weak job prospects after BA/BS or PhD). One could make a better argument for Yale if the target were employment in elite investment banking or management consulting companies.</p>

<p>Perhaps majoring in CS and doing biology as the second major, minor, or elective courses may be a safer way to study the computational biology interest. Majoring in CS would give a better escape route into the job market if the desired path (BA/BS -> PhD -> reasearch/academic job) does not go as desired.</p>

<p>Here are some things worth looking at in order to be aware of how competitive the job market in biology is. This does not mean you should not try for it, but you should have a realistic view of how competitive it is, and how important it is to avoid large debt.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys-4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys-4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Education:</a> The PhD factory : Nature News](<a href=“http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472276a.html]Education:”>Education: The PhD factory | Nature)</p>

<p>UCB, I always really appreciate the things you have to say on this subject. I want to add that when someone is gifted enough to be getting likelies from the Ivies or getting into Yale EA? It is perhaps not this population we are concerned with in terms of borrowing. The OP is a true student.</p>

<p>I’d hate to apply the same principle in this case that I would apply to other schools.</p>

<p>JMO</p>

<p>ETA: In the most recent study done on the issue of whether or not an elite school education has more life changing benefits than a state or mid range school, the only group to truly benefit, in exponential ways, is the group from low SES backgrounds. So…make of that what you will.</p>

<p>Either way you decide, good luck to you.</p>

<p>If you and your parents can afford Yale, that is a great place to go, but, and it is a big BUT, it is not worth putting our famlly in a precarious situations. If they truly cannot afford to scrape up the money and the UD offer is a true gift to help them out some financial trouble, it is something I would consider, unless I could come up with a reasonable amount to bring the cost waaay down.</p>

<p>I don’t know what your family situation or yours is, which is why it’s difficult to say, oh, yes, go to Yale and you and your family take on an$80K+ debt by borrowing (which will be more than that with interest if the whole amount is borrowed). Also, bear in mind that the $20K is on paper only, and true costs can often exceed estimates. Again, how disciplined you and your family are and if they are in trouble, big trouble financially, is something to heavily consider. Are you working? Can you work and make money this summer? HOw intrepid are YOU in making money? If you haven’t earned a dime in your life, and it doesn’t look good, in terms of you making much more than a nominal amount, that comes into play too. It really comes down to how much of a problem getting this money will be, borrowing it, earning it, being disciplined enough to scrimp, all big issues. </p>

<p>My cousin has a DD at UD who is doing very well, and the family, though they live near by has spent a fortune on her there as they just are the type that like to live it big no matter what the finances are. They will pay a huge amount over the list price there, and a full ride there vs Yale, well it would make a big difference in their financial situation, and I don’t know how much a Yale degree could make up for that.</p>

<p>So, yes, I would say, go to Yale, but say so with caution, not knowing what the family situation and mechanics are. If doable, it’s worth the $100K that it will probably end up costing, but if a family truly cannot afford that nut, it’s a big one to take on and probably not worth doing.</p>

<p>I do have a summer job (and Yale’s financial aid would include close to 3k in work study). So I can contribute a decent amount towards the cost of Brown or Yale. After subtracting out my earnings and and savings and the amount I think my parents can pay without borrowing, there’s probably between 8-12k left per year. I’d anticipate graduating with close to 20k in debt for myself, and a similar or (hopefully) lesser amount for my parents. </p>

<p>Also, as I mentioned above, my sister will be entering college in two years. Does anyone have an idea from experience of how this might affect my financial aid from Yale or Brown?</p>

<p>And several people have offered finance/investment banking as a possible escape route if I would find myself in debt and with nowhere to go in biology. I appreciate the advice, but I find it very hard to picture myself going that route. I would much rather (right now, at least) bear the financial burden and stick it out in biology, or else try my luck in science writing or computer science before considering the finance option.</p>

<p>If you will graduate with 20K in debt? It’s a no brainer. </p>

<p>Up to probably 40K it is a no brainer. Unless you WANT to go somewhere else, I’d say you are in a much better situation than the thread implies.</p>

<p>Look I will be honest with you. I ALWAYS say no debt, BUT in your case I will say: YALE 100%. You cannot buy an Ivy advantage for $80,000. If your debt was 200,000, then I would say go somewhere else because there is no way you can recoup that. 80,000 is doable. Do not even think twice.</p>

<p>I agree with all the others, but I would put it this way: in making a decision like this, you have to balance the financial burden of the more expensive school(s) vs. the gap in quality/opportunity between the more selective and less selective schools. In your case, it appears that the financial burden, while significant, is manageable. The gap, in my opinion, is fairly large, even taking into account the honors program at Delaware. This would be a closer question if the schools were closer together (i.e., if this were, say, Northwestern vs. Virginia).</p>

<p>Let me just add that between Yale and Brown, you should go to the one that you like best–although if one turns out to be significantly cheaper, there’s not that much quality/opportunity difference between them. Go to the cheaper one.</p>

<p>You only go to college once, so my advice is: If you love Brown, GO BROWN! Yu want to go somewhere that you absolutely love, especially with your grades. </p>

<p>However, Yale is Yale. You still have a month before the deadline. Is there any way at all you can visit the campus? Any experience is better than none.</p>

<p>I would say Yale is worth the $100K differential over UD if the family can afford this without a lot of hardship. A lot of qualitative words here. But if the family is in trouble, that can bring them over.</p>

<p>Brown…unless the student is truly in love with the school, and even then, i would not choose it over Yale at the same price tag of $20K a year. I would be more inclined to consider UD and the hardship to the family doesn’t have to be as hard to go there for free over Brown.</p>

<p>There are only a handful of schools that have such universal name recogniton, and Yale is one of them. Brown is not.</p>

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I don’t agree with this, and I’m a Yale alum. Brown is an Ivy League school with a terrific reputation–it has universal name recognition among anybody who might be hiring you or deciding whether to admit you into a graduate program. I do think Yale is “better” in the abstract, but Brown could well be better for a particular student.</p>

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<p>Here is a post-graduation survey from a peer school (MIT):</p>

<p><a href=“http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/graduation12.pdf[/url]”>http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/graduation12.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2012EDD.pdf[/url]”>http://gecd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2012EDD.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Note that employed biology majors with bachelor’s degrees’ average pay $38,778. For those with doctorates, the average pay was $54,000.</p>

<p>$80,000 in undergraduate debt would not be a wise choice for a biology major. Even $40,000 is questionable.</p>

<p>The trade-off may be different if the OP were interested in investment banking or management consulting. But the OP is not.</p>

<p>you know you can negotiate scholarships?? Tell Yale UD gave you a full ride, and that Yale is your absolute dream, but you can’t turn down a full ride. Your family is so poor, and will struggle to pay $20k a year (whatevs make stuff up)
if they say “no we don’t give you more money”, then go to Yale anyway. It will change your life.</p>

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<p>I do not agree with this advice. Yale does not give merit scholarships, only need-based financial aid based on financial documentation provided by the student, family and IRS. They are not going to respond favorably to “whatevs make stuff up.”. UDel has given this student a merit scholarship based on the student’s academic performance. Yale does not need to compete with UDel for top students so it’s unlikely to award the OP more money on that basis. The only reason they would increase their funds would be if the OP’s financial situation changed.</p>

<p>Yes, Yale looks very attractive; however, if you incur loan for your UG, and if you plan on doing PhD, which might take approx. 4 years during which time the loan will accrue interest. </p>

<p>So, you need to find out:
(i) How much loan would (a) you & (b) your parents incur.
(ii) What is the interest rate on the loans
(iii) What would the loan amount be after 4 years of PhD.</p>

<p>it’s 20k a year = $80k all in</p>

<p>what can your family afford </p>

<p>that is, what is the maximum yearly contribution that your family has agreed to provide for you?</p>

<p>P.S. For post #14 it’s 20k a year, and $80k in debt is daunting</p>

<p>$80K in debt may or may not be daunting. It may be that the family can also help later with retiring the debt–it may not all have to come from the student’s own earnings.</p>

<p>I will add that there ought to be some schools in between Yale and Delaware both in terms of cost and quality.</p>