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Yeah - that’s why I qualified it with the SUVs and didn’t mention the go-fast rally car. Your S/H would probably have fun with one of those.</p>
<p>Does anyone have experience with the Mitsubishi Lancer? Very good safety record and quite reasonably priced.</p>
<p>I think the Lancer is usually considered a lemon among its so many able competitors. Probably why it is priced low.</p>
<p>“To be politically incorrect - a Subaru Forester and Outback pretty much top the list as a ‘mom car’ so if this is for your S or your H then they might it not be so appealing.”</p>
<p>Not in Seattle, LOL. Plenty of guys drive said Subarus here.</p>
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<p>Hmmm, plenty of guys drive Subaru Foresters and Outbacks.</p>
<p>They even have custom [badges[/url</a>] for owners to stick on their cars. Presumably, they have enough owners who are not traditional family people to offer a badge for them (note the badge next to the family one; the family one was a more recent offering since it was absent in [url=<a href=“http://blog.caranddriver.com/fun-with-subarus-badge-of-ownership/]older”>http://blog.caranddriver.com/fun-with-subarus-badge-of-ownership/]older</a> lists](<a href=“Badge of Ownership”>Badge of Ownership) of the first 12 badges).</p>
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Yea - it might have been too wet out for theirs sports car. Actually the designation isn’t mine - I’ve read it in a number of auto enthusiast mags. These two models really tend to epitomize ‘mom cars’. I’m not saying anything’s wrong with the cars, just that the appeal might not be there. I know they don’t appeal to me but that’s not based on their capabilities.</p>
<p>These things can happen with cars - like the new VW Beetle that appealed mostly to females. VW specifically tried the change that in the most recent design to broaden its appeal base. Among other things, I think they got rid of the flower holder.</p>
<p>Must be the East vs West coast thing. I do not thinks the guys who drive Subarus around here own a second, dry weather sports car. :)</p>
<p>I am a big fan of Subarus, they are good cars and they last forever, literally. They are relatively easy to do basic maintenance on, I have done plenty of oil changes, spark plug changes and the like on them, and while no modern engine has the ease of access cars once did, it isn’t like the Mazda Miata or some GM specials where you go crazy with basic maintenance stuff. The outback sport is an impreza that has been tarted up</p>
<p>I would stay away from the Lancer, while the Lancer Evo is a hot rally style car Mitsubishi is problematic mechanically, several years ago they were caught falsifying defect issues with their cars, and their build quality is some of the lowest from what I know. </p>
<p>Note the Liberty is not an AWD system, it is a part time 4 WD system. An AWD system like the Subaru has is always there so if you are driving down the road and hit a slippery spot it comes into play; on the Liberty and vehicles like it you have to shift into 4WD mode, so it won’t pick up unexpected slippery conditions, like for example on wet pavement. </p>
<p>The advantages to a part time 4WD system is most of the time it runs in 2WD mode, which cuts load on the engine (thus better gas mileage) and also cuts wear and tear on the transmission which happens in 4WD mode (among other thing, on 4wd systems as far as I know, there is no viscous couplling/center differential that adjusts for wheel speed, and you can get uneven torque effects on the transmission from the wheels, some AWD systems pretty much all have that kind of coupling). Given that the car will be operated mostly in 2WD mode, that likely isn’t going to be a problem. If you go with the liberty, don’t use the 4WD on dry pavement and limit using it to when you absolutely need it, like snow and heavy rain or off road driving:). </p>
<p>AWD systems are always there and they therefore improve traction continuously, and because they usually (if not always) have the viscuous coupling, the transmission isn’t subject to torque forces that can destroy the transmission (have pretty good experience with Subaru’s awd system through friends and family who own them, body will fall apart before they will)…and oh, yeah, Subarus are made in Indiana and roughly 85% of the content is made in the US, if that is a factor for you. </p>
<p>Honda and Toyota both have small SUV’s, which are pretty reliable, but they also tend to be expensive but might be worth looking at, and they use AWD systems as well I believe. </p>
<p>In terms of safety, SUV’s even with anti rollover technology still pose a threat with that, the Jeep Liberty can flip over because of its height above the ground, as can any SUV, and with a young driver I would be worried about that (a Subaru Forrester has the same issue, though it isn’t that far off the ground). To be honest, unless the kid is planning on going off roading (which a Liberty is not really designed for…actually, 95% of SUV owners never take them off road, so the ground clearance/raised height doesn’t do anything for most drivers unless they live in places that routinely get 2’ of snow on the roads…and adds to the roll over issue, to boot), I would look at more car like vehicles like the Outback models or even the Impreza or Legacy Sedan (depending on if they need the cargo room).</p>
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The Liberty has 2 different 4WD systems available - a part time one (Command Trac) and a full time one (Selec Trac) and the latter is an AWD system albeit with the added capability of a low range if needed (usually used for real 4-wheeling such as on desert trails or sand/mud areas, pulling a boat out of the water, etc.). In high range the Selec Trac one works like the AWD ones on vehicles that are ‘on the road only’ type AWD systems in that it’s always enabled.</p>
<p>I have the liberty and I admit I rarely take
It off road, however the quality of the roads around Seattle are so bad that if it wasn’t so high off the ground, my muffler would have been ripped off ( from unexpected potholes) at the very least.</p>
<p>Glad grad is correct, they offer the selec track on the liberty aka the AWD variant, their website is pretty crappy IMO, didn’t see that.</p>
<p>^^ I cheated - I used to have a Jeep Cherokee and was familiar with how they often offer multiple 4WD systems on their vehicles - I then double checked it for the Liberty on their website.</p>
<p>Just a reminder that the OP is asking about the Patriot, not the liberty - two different cars really - the Patriot is more like the Cherokee if anything.</p>
<p>^^ It looks like the Patriot has a full time 4WD system (like AWD) but also has a low range for more power at the low end if needed (off-roading, sand, pulling the boat out, etc.) - but they’re different particular systems than the Liberty.</p>
<p>People seem to be raving about Subaru so I took a look. The price point of Impreza is impressive given it has AWD. Maybe Impreza is the best bet for price, AWD, and safety.</p>
<p>Yeah, and the new redesigned one offers good fuel economy too. I think the hatchback version also will give you good cargo room, though will likely start higher than the sedan trim.</p>
<p>Also - if shopping AWD - I’m pretty sure the Suzuki SX4 is the cheapest AWD model on the market. Worth a look.</p>
<p>My mistake, correct, the OP was looking at the Patriot which is smaller then the liberty. The Patriot does better gas mileage as it is a smaller vehicle and is less expensive. It is still an SUV though with the issues SUV’s have. </p>
<p>My impression of the Suzuki is not a good one, it is very inexpensive but Suzuki doesn’t have a good reputation among my network of car owners and gear heads, they are very cheap but they are also made that way, and their handling while much, much better then the old Sidekick that became synonymous with roll over is still not great. Complaints I hear range from fit and finish to parts falling off the interior, problems with transmissions and electrical systems, and the difficult of getting repairs and from what I have been told expense of the parts.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, my S has a Patriot and it does NOT have full time 4WD. You must push a button to engage it. He is again traveling today in driving rain a 3 hour ride and says it is handling well.</p>
<p>This thread is also timely for us as we are helping D look for a new/used car. Will need to replace her 10 year old Mazda Tribute. Just this morning H and I were talking about the Suzuki SX4 - it is great on gas and it is AWD BUT that baby is small and I don’t know how it would hold up in an accident. We also have been trying to find the Imprenza Hatchback - IMO a perfect combo of sporty, decent gas, AWD and not-a-SUV - they are hard to find though! We/she also likes the Nissan Rogue AWD.</p>
<p>I think the last poster is correct, I don’t think the patriot offers selec trac, I just checked Jeeps website and cars.com and they don’t show that as an option, which means it is part time 4WD.</p>
<p>As far as the suzuki goes, my advice would be to stay away from it, it is pretty cheap but as I mentioned in a prior post, the impression I get of it is not good, that you are in some ways getting what you pay for, and I have questions about quality of build and reliability based on what I have heard from my informal network. Plus with Suzuki dealers are few and far between and it can be difficult to get parts for them from what I hear.</p>
<p>If the Patriot is akin to the Cherokee, then I’d highly recommend it. I have a 2001 with 180k miles on it, and except one issue with the air conditioner, all that has been required is routine maintenance. It has been a great car, and my SS has driven it for the past 2 years - he’s a senior in high school now. I did caution him about being careful not to take turns fast (potential for rollover) but I drove it for many years and never felt that this was really an issue. (In fact, I’d never let him drive it if I thought that.) </p>
<p>It’s great in snow too - optional 4WD.</p>