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<p>And this is the reason why more of this stuff is not reported.</p>
<p>Trust me, I am well aware of the reasons for them to be paying her of the books, and we have had a long discussion about its illegality, she is looking for another job, but they are in very short supply. She needs a job, as she is saving for college. To make my point about the prevelancy of this tactic, Her twin sister was just hired at a family owned business. She recently received her first pay. $70.00 cash!!! The best part is it was for one days work, 9am to 10:00pm. No overtime!! I went balistic!!! They call it “training wage” I did look up the laws, and an employer can pay less than minimum wage for the first 60 days of employment in Pennsylvania, but the minimum is $6.00/hour, not five. I also know, they will more than likely loose the jobs if I make any noise. Then again, I could report them to the IRS!!! Now I have the same problem with her. I, too, work in a doctor’s office, who demands that overtime be worked, yet refuses to pay overtime wages. Instead, you get “comp” time. I an convinced, most of the world is crooked, and unless you have the luxury of unlimitted employment opportunities, sometimes one has to do what they need to in order to survive.</p>
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<p>Yep. That’s one reason to go to college, to get access to jobs from more employers who play by the rules.</p>
<p>Codesun, then you already are dealing with this.</p>
<p>Even big companies get caught by the overtime rules–I remember that Wal-Mart and Nordstroms have had trouble in the past.</p>
<p>It’s been a long time since either H or I have had jobs that paid overtime. Think of all of the work that gets done at home–teachers grading papers, worker answering emails, etc. The US is turning more and more into a place where there are no boundaries between work and home. The Blackberry is NOT helping!</p>
<p>Amen to post #23, Ellemenope. What really irks me when I read these stories is that it’s the underaged or minority communities who are most often taken advantage of and it’s because their options are limited. </p>
<p>It’s outrageous. I work for a city (so we actually COLLECT taxes for things like, oh, business tax.) Anyway, one of our Accounting Managers told me a story about how the Parks & Rec Dept tried to screw her daughter over when she worked PT as a lifeguard. When Mom heard about it, she called the department and got that practice halted in a big hurry, since it exposed the City to big fines. Guess what kind of accounting Mom managed? PAYROLL! Guess they didn’t make the connection as to who her daughter was since she had a different last name.</p>
<p>So yeah, it happens more often than we’d like to think. And most often, it is the employee who ends up being hurt in the process … if no money is being paid in to Social Security, it won’t be there for them when they retire.</p>
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<p>So true, findaplace…</p>
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That is so not true. Students pay the same taxes as anybody else if they make enough.</p>
<p>This company is doing so many things illegally that I could go on and on. And the employee is at risk for many things. If they are paying under the table, they are also disobeying all the other rules for the protection of their employees. The fact that they can’t put this job on their resume is going to be the least of their problems should something bad happen.</p>
<p>There was a pizza place around here that was robbed at gunpoint one evening. The only employee there was killed. It was a young person who wasn’t even allowed to be working at the hour they were robbed. The company is out of business, but the kid is dead.</p>
<p>It is not necessarily true that a place that is not doing what they should be doing regarding taxes, payroll, etc is also cheating elsewhere. They are breaking the law by not putting an employee on the official payroll, but that can be the only thing they are doing improperly. They may even have most of their employees legally processed, leaving the most transient positions outside of the law. </p>
<p>One of the places where my son worked had mostly career waiters and waitresses, and they did have their incomes reported and all of the paper work done. They did not include some of the temporary busboys, dishwashers, cleaning crew, and other such positions, probably because so many of them were illegal and sporadic. The entire time he worked there, he did not find any other illegal doings. All employees were fairly treated in other ways, no one was asked to do dangerous work, alcohol rules were carefully enforced. None of this mitigates the fact that they had undocumented workers and it is true that they were taking a risk doing things this way, and also incurring risks for those workers. But it was a risk they had been taking for years, and they were comfortable doing so.</p>
<p>S had a restaurant job like this last summer. It was an ethnic restaurant run by foreigners.
They did not pay overtime, but paid S $8/hr. All they asked for was S’s name and phone number. The owner ran a number of different businesses and S’s checks sometimes were from different unrelated business accounts. I suspect there were a couple illegals working there too. I was uneasy about it, but it was hard for S to find any job and he got a lot of hours at this place. (Plus, he got to eat lunch there and often brought home leftovers after dinner–which H and I enjoyed). </p>
<p>Then, this year, after April 15, the manager called me and said he’d “been trying to send S a 1099 since Jan. and didn’t have his address–and BTW, S was their best worker and will he be back this summer?” (LOL–the guy had S’s correct cell phone number–could’ve called for his address any time And how did he get MY phone number? It’s in the phonebook. . .what a liar) I gave him our address, but he never sent a 1099 (which is supposed to be for consultants, not employees–no way S could not be classified as an employee). Lucky S found a job at his college and didn’t return to this place this summer.</p>
<p>I know they are breaking the law, but I don’t want to turn them in. I’m a little afraid of them because I think they have the kind of connections that, well, if I made things uncomfortable for them, they could make things uncomfortable for me.</p>
<p>Atomom, I would not permit anyone living in my house working for those sort of connections. My risk taking has a very firm line drawn there. </p>
<p>In our situation, I have chosen not to target businesses and individuals who come to my attention as not abiding by employment rules. Clearly the rules here are not being enforced and I don’t regard it my mission in life to fight that battle. Too many others I am fighting. I would not permit my minor child to work at such a place, however, and would warn my adult children of the risks.</p>
<p>It’s prevelent in our area also, especially the seasonal places like the ice cream shops, etc. I would never report them personally, what goes around comes around and they’ll get caught someday. None of my kids has taken one of those jobs, but I’m sure the small “owners” think of the kids like contractors in the same vein as babysitters, lawn care boys, dog walkers and the like. That’s no excuse but it happens more often than many realize. I would be more concerned about a full fledged restaurant where accidents occur pretty easily and yes, it would be an insurance mess regarding workman’s comp not to mention I’m sure the kid/parent policy. My son did turn down a legit restaurant job when he was told he wouldn’t be full paid for 2 weeks of training (for a table cleaning job that would take about 15 minutes to train for). What a crock…the restaurant gets 2 full 20 hr weeks of the kids for virtually no pay.</p>
<p>Summer jobs have disappeared in many areas. I know that on the Shore, there are hardly any Americans working the boardwalk, restaurants, rides, etc. Those all used to be college and high school students’ jobs. Many of the businesses now contract with international job agencies and hire foreign students for the summer. A lot from the Eastern European countries, I’ve noticed. My boys could not get anything there other than life guarding which appears to be still very much focused on citizenship and proper papers as they are government jobs. </p>
<p>In this area, it is difficult to find anyone uninvolved in this situation. I legally pay my housekeeper who cleans for me once a week but I think most pay such help under the table. Though I check for insurance and certificates as recommended by our town, I know most of my neighbors do not. My lawn care company that had used up to this year had regular employees–I saw the same guys each week for years, but are they all legal workers? Are they being paid properly? Who knows? I know I paid 4x what two of my neighbors did for tree removal because I used a real company that is registered and has all the necessary permits and an arborist on staff. Still, The guys who removed could easily have been picked up at the day laborer lot. It certainly wasn’t the arborist or the guy who discussed the work with me who did the dirty work. </p>
<p>I use companies that are legitimately registered and known to our town because I want to be sure that they are insured and that we decrease our risks if there are injuries. But most people take the chance. With so little enforcement of the law in this area, I don’t feel like this is a mission I want to undertake, as I simply do not feel strongly enough about the matter.</p>
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<li><p>She should report the income so she’s not breaking the law.</p></li>
<li><p>Assuming the business really isn’t reporting their own income or doing witholding -
— She should quit since the business is conducting itself in an illegal fashion which is unethical. Even if jobs are somewhat scarce this is an important lesson to learn on ethics and she shouldn’t be supporting that business in their illegal practices. </p></li>
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<p>— No one should worry about whether the employer ‘gets caught’ or not. The employer is purposely putting themselves in the precarious situation. They’re also putting their employees in a precarious situation and don’t seem too concerned about that.</p>
<p>This employer is placing a greater tax burden on the rest of us by not paying taxes. Your D would be doing the same thing if she doesn’t report her income although she could well be in a bracket where her income tax burden will be $0 anyway.</p>
<p>CPT- bravo to you. I was told by a social worker at a local social service agency that I was putting an entire population at risk by paying social security and unemployment tax on our babysitter. (so you’d have an uprising of all the underpaid and exploited nannies in town? who would tell their employers en masse that they expected to be paid according to the law? Sounds fine with me.) I told her that I had no choice if I ever wanted to be confirmed as Attorney General (LOL).</p>
<p>Back to the original question- the job goes on the college application- I think that’s the consensus here. The legal/tax/compliance issues can wait for another opportunity. Correct?</p>
<p>As I posted earlier, my kids put down a number of jobs that did not have tax backup for them on their college apps. They did not need it as they were sporadic type jobs. I don’t think the OP’s D needs to worry about this situation. No is going to track the job from the college app to the tax return. That’s going a bit far. </p>
<p>Of course, the OP’s D should report her earnings on her tax return and for FAFSA and other purposes. That the shop does not report, is their own problem. It’s up to them to ask for the information and file the papers.</p>
<p>Agree with cpt and others. Put the job on the resume, file taxes if needed at end of year, be honest on the FAFSA. Don’t report the business. It happens alot in our community where there are lots of seasonal, resort jobs like scooping ice cream or giving swimming lessons in the neighborhood pools or caddying at the gold course. I sometimes think the ice cream stands, etc. think of these kids much like a baby sitter, dog walker, lawn boy, etc. They probably aren’t ignorant and chances are they pay their year round employees legit (at least that’s what I think).</p>
<p>I am upset regarding the feeling that it may be prevalent in some industries/locations such that owners get away with it.
It doesn’t have to be that way, and in truth it isn’t that way with many small business owners. We are fortunate to spend the summer at the shore with many seasonal businesses. Both of my teen girls have been employed summers since they were old enough to do so in our state. They have had a variety of positions, a variety of owners-an ice cream shop (2 summers), a pastry shop, a clothing boutique, and this summer a candy store, a children’s day program and clothing boutique (again). Every owner has required working papers, signed w-2’s, SS numbers and one position put hours, uniform requirements and wage in writing prior to DD2 accepting the job. All jobs paid above minimum wage. And this in a community with a very short season. I see no reason most others can’t comply as well.</p>
<p>While DD’s did not make enough to pay Federal taxes they sure learned quickly what fica and state taxes were and they also learned that they made more and without taxes being withheld from babysitting on a Sat night.</p>
<p>You don’t know pain until you have had to fill out security forms (SF 89P for example) where you have to list every job and residence plus the current phone number of a person who can verify you worked there - and hand it over to the FBI - For a high school science research internship. </p>
<p>To avoid future pain, our kids should not do anything that would look bad in a Congress hearing or to the FBI.</p>
<p>…or might show up on the front page of the local newspaper where your mother might read it. </p>
<p>Good rules to live by, toadstool.</p>