Job Prospects for ‘24, ‘25 Grads and beyond?

I don’t find it peculiar. Engineering is a challenging major that requires a good amount of math. It has a relatively low persistence rate. This touches on differences between major distribution across students attending colleges in the US as a whole vs students attending highly selective colleges. The latter shows a much stronger focus on fields associated with higher income. Some example numbers I listed in a previous post are below, which are several years old.

Across US colleges as a whole, students tend to choose vocationally focused majors for which there is a clear link to employment rather than liberal arts majors. Nursing → nurse, Accounting → accountant, Biology → doctor, Engineering → engineer, … rather than majors with a less obvious career connection to typical students English → ???, Art → ???, History → ???.

Among highly selective colleges, the most popular majors are almost always the ones associated with the highest earnings – CS, engineering, biology (with intention to pursue MD), economics (with intention to pursue finance/consulting), etc. Again English, art, history, and the like have low percentages; but for somewhat different reasons.

Most Common Major Categories at All 4-Year Colleges in US

  1. Nursing / Health Professions – 12%
  2. Business – 8.5%
  3. Biology – 6.8%
  4. Psychology – 6.7%
  5. Engineering – 6.4%
  6. CS & Related – 5.4%
  7. Education – 4.5%
  8. Visual/Performing Arts – 4.5%
  9. Interdisciplinary – 2.7%
  10. Finance – 2.3%

Most Common Major Categories at 25 of the Most Selective Private Colleges

  1. CS & Related-- 12%
  2. Engineering – 11%
  3. Biology – 11%
  4. Economics – 10%
  5. Math / Stats – 5.0%
  6. Political Science – 4.7%
  7. Psychology – 4.0%
  8. Interdisciplinary – 4.0%
  9. Physical Sciences – 3.8%
  10. Visual/Performing Arts – 3.6% (Northwestern outlier influences total)

For both groups, there has been an increasing portion pursuing tech in recent years and a decreasing portion pursuing humanities. The percent pursuing CS has had an especially large increase. At highly selective colleges, it’s common to quintuple enrollment in under a decade, increasing from a relatively unpopular major to the most popular major at the college. One recent trend that may relate to AI fears is in the past year or two, some colleges have shown a decrease in CS enrollment. It’s often not visible among graduates yet, but the decrease is in the pipeline with changes in major enrollment.

Example numbers from Stanford are below. CS has had a notable decrease at the same time that engineering fields and pure math (not Math CS) had notable increase. I expect some would be CS majors switched to engineering/math instead due to AI fears. As a whole they did not switch to humanities majors or others associated with lower earnings. Instead the majors with largest % decreases in enrollment were all humanities fields, such as philosophy and English.

Stanford Majors With Highest Enrollment 2022 → 2023 → 2024 → 2025
1 . Computer Science: 20% → 20% → 19% → 17%
2. Engineering (all fields except MS&E): 15% → 15% → 15% → 17%
4. Biology + Human Biology: 10% → 9% → 9% → 10%
3. Math / Math CS/DS: 6% → 6% → 6% → 6%
4. Economics: 6% → 5% → 5% → 6%
6. Symbolic Systems: 5% → 5% → 5% → 5%
7. Management Sciences & Engineering: 3% → 3% → 4% → 4%
8. Psychology: 3% → 3% → 3% → 3%
9. Political Science: 3% → 3% → 3% → 3%
10. Science, Tech, and Society: 2% → 3% → 3% → 2%

Majors With Largest % Increase from 2022 → 2025 (with min 20 enrollment)
1 . Bio Engineering
2. Chemical Engineering
3. Electrical Engineering
4. Mathematics
5. History (2024/25 was perceived to be a key historical time)
6. Mechanical Engineering

Majors With Largest % Decrease from 2022 → 2025 (with min 20 enrollment)
1 . Philosophy
2. English
3. Anthropology
4. American Studies
5. Comparative Literature
6. Art Practice

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Alternate way to navigate school with less focus on courses. Seems to work in her case and for her major.

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Do you have a free version ?

There are English majors who can’t do sums of greater than two digits, and maybe not even that.

There are electrical engineering majors who can’t write (or speak) their way out of a wet paper bag.

And there are English majors who are mathematically proficient, and engineering majors who are linguistically proficient.

Can we please stop it with the stereotypes about what different majors can and can’t do, and focus on the topic at hand (which is, in the relevant part, that an array of skills is useful no matter the major)?

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AI Summary: (not sure how to link a free version).

The article is an as‑told‑to piece by Fiona Li, a UC Davis graduate who completed more than 10 internships, including several unpaid ones, before landing roles at DocuSign, Intel, Nvidia, and eventually becoming a director of marketing at an AI startup. She explains that in her early college years she had little conventional experience, so she leveraged high‑school jobs—like working at a boba shop and teaching piano and dance—to win small unpaid internships she found on job boards, using each one to build concrete skills (e.g., learning Facebook ads at an e‑commerce store). Over time, her résumé filled with these roles (without indicating which were unpaid), which helped her secure her first paid internship at DocuSign in 2021 and then increasingly competitive positions, including Nvidia after 13 applications and an internal referral from a manager who passed her résumé to another team.

Li argues that at the very start of a career, learning is more important than whether an internship is paid, and that what matters most is not the sheer number of internships but the impact and projects you can show from them. She criticizes the tendency of some students to wait until junior or senior year to begin searching and instead urges undergrads to “hunt down” opportunities early through cold outreach, networking, and trying both startups and large companies. Li also explains that this aggressive internship strategy came with a real trade‑off: her GPA dropped to about 3.1 because she prioritized work experience over perfect grades. She says she consciously chose to focus on internships rather than maximizing GPA, reasoning that if she wanted an MBA or master’s later she might have made a different choice, but for her career goals, hands‑on experience mattered more—and she does not regret that decision. At the same time, she cautions that unpaid internships should be a stepping stone rather than free labor forever: once you stop learning, you should move on to paid roles. Her advice to students is to start early, aim for four to five meaningful experiences, complete at least one good internship each summer, and ensure each role produces tangible impact for a portfolio—even if it means accepting a somewhat lower GPA in exchange for real‑world skills.

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Sorry, I can’t read that long post (deplaning shortly and reading on the phone) but what I meant was what I found peculiar were the sub categories within the categories. A bit hard to decipher. Point being there are so many people here who seem to think everybody and their brother pursues engineering or switches to engineering after pivoting from computer science , but the data just doesn’t seem to support it.

This is literally what the professors told us was happening at our visit. But these are just small data points.

No one knows what will happen but it may take a few years before it really plays out.

But if CS kids are no longer studying CS, what are they going to study instead? English? People are assuming it’ll be another STEM related field.

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Of course, being able to take unpaid internships for the sake of learning and resume building can be a luxury for those who do not need paid work to keep the student loan amounts in check.

Also, unpaid internships are only legal in the US under certain circumstances: Challenge Validation . Of course, that does not prevent employers from trying to bend the rules here.

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It’s an extremely common trend at highly selective colleges that have open major enrollment. Example stats for Princeton are below, comparing 2022 to 2025 again. Many aspects look similar to Stanford. Like Stanford, CS had a ~3 percentage point loss, and engineering had a ~3 percentage point gain.

Princeton, Highest Major Enrollment: 2022 → 2025
1 . Engineering School except CS: 17% → 20%
2. Computer Science: 16% → 13%
3. Economics: 10% → 11%
4. International Relations: 9% → 9%
5. Biology / Neuroscience: 7% → 8%

Princeton, Largest % Increase: 2022 → 2025 (with min 20 enrollment)
1 . Electrical & Computer Engineering (enrollment more than doubled)
2. Mechanical Engineering
3. Architecture

MIT is an outlier, which I suspect relates to MIT offering an AI major. Enrollment in the AI major skyrocketed from 37 to 328. I suspect many would be CS majors instead majored in AI, so there was less engineering gains.

MIT, Highest Major Enrollment in 2025: 2022 → 2025
1 . CS + Engineering: 774 → 626
2. Mechanical Engineering: 391 → 425 (2 + 2a)
3. Artificial Intelligence: 37 → 328
4. Mathematics: 237 → 261
5. Physics: 170 → 173
6. EE + CS: 333 → 159

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Separate from MIT and Stanford and the like, Of the approx 3000 4 year colleges, how may offer engineering degrees (and how many are ABET certified?) Looking across all colleges, at the big picture - in the big scheme of things, what percentage earn engineering degrees? Just wondering about this, apart from the CC bubble.
Actually, with new H1B visas costing 100k, there should be more opportunities (meaning less competition) for domestic engineers (and am speaking as the parent of 2 engineers).

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The ABET web site lists 601 entries for US schools with ABET EAC accredited bachelor’s degree programs, although the actual number of schools is slightly smaller due to some entries being former school names.

For bachelor’s degrees in the US, 6.1% in 2021-2022, according to Bachelor's degrees conferred by postsecondary institutions, by field of study: Selected academic years, 1970-71 through 2021-22

In 2024, only about 10.2% of H-1B visas were for the combination of architecture + engineering + surveying (versus 63.9% in computer related), according to https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/reports/ola_signed_h1b_characteristics_congressional_report_FY24.pdf . Also, about a third went to people with bachelor’s degrees, while most of the rest went to people with masters, doctoral, or professional degrees, so those with bachelor’s degrees may not be direct substitutes or competitors for those jobs (and employers may choose to export jobs if they cannot import workers).

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This is exactly what I posted above from the IPEDS data that started this whole conversation!!!

Here:

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As an aside, S24 finally got an internship offer today after months of trying. It’s not prestigious - he’ll be working in risk management for the state - but it is something to put on his resume so he is really happy. He identified the job via Indeed although he actually applied via the state jobs site (he worked doing manual labor for the department of conservation last summer so he already had an account). I’m glad for him since he’s really been down about the whole process.

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What’s prestige have to do with anything.

He’s working in risk management for the state. It has the chance to be AWESOME. My daughter did a state internship and the next was at a very prominent think tank in DC.

He didn’t give up - and he didn’t say, it’s late April and I have nothing. He persisted.

And it sounds like a GREAT ROLE to me - and it’s not just something to put on his resume. It is something that will propel him above other job seekers next year!!

It’s a GRAND SLAM HOME RUN!!!

Congrats to him.

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Thanks so much for the kind words. He is a great, hardworking kid and I’m delighted that he has gotten an internship of any kind. I’m sure he’ll learn a lot. It’s been very tough out there vis a vis internships and most kids we know that have them had connections (which we do not).

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If you previously posted the percentage earning engineering degrees multiple times, why ask the thread what percentage earn engineering degrees?

In any case, the quoted engineering percentage is from 2021-22, so it doesn’t include the recent switch from CS to engineering due to perceived improved job prospects with AI fears, which is what I thought started the tangent. CS is often the most popular major at highly selective colleges with open major enrollment. However, on a national level, % majoring in CS is smaller than % majoring in engineering. As such this recent CS → engineering effect is more visible at the highly selective colleges that tend to be the focus of discussions on this website than across US colleges as a whole.

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I repeated my original “question”/comment because you took it into the weeds :slight_smile: The post was dissected and redirected to talk about an increase in engineering majors in some specified schools. MY POINT is that outside the CC bubble, the reality is that only a small percentage (6%) of overall college students major in engineering.

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Which matches with the labor market.

During high growth of tech companies, there are jobs for everyone (or mostly everyone).

During contractions (which I’d argue is happening now- or at least the lay-offs are increasingly public) a scarcity model kicks in. New grads are competing against last year’s grads and the two years ago grads, etc.

But as we all learned in Econ 1- a Tree doesn’t grow to the sky. The demand for engineers (regardless of discipline) is not infinite. And so you see the students who had been targeting the sexy companies ending up as a QA engineer for a food company, and the student who wanted to work as a QA engineer for the same food company downshifting to something perceived as “less than”.

You can’t outrun the market.

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Is that the 4th time you’ve posted 6% completed engineering figure, in addition to asking what % complete engineering degrees after posting the 6% figure, and ucbalumnus + myself listing the 6% figure in response to your posts? With 6+ posts listing the figure, I expect anyone whose followed the thread is completely clear on 6% completing engineering degrees in 2021-22 – point understood.

However, the original comment that triggered the tangent involved a dramatic increase in portion of students switching to engineering majors at Brown (not large % engineering majors, increase in % switching to engineering). My post clarified that this is a common trend at highly selective colleges, which I suspect relates to relates to fears about AI influencing job prospects. Students switching from CS to engineering in response to AI fears first became visible after your 2021-22 figure. A significant portion of would be CS majors instead choose to major in engineering due to perceived uncertainty of job prospects for CS majors, with recent (after 2021-22) AI developments. I expect the same trend is occurring on a smaller scale at a national level as well, particularly at colleges that have open major enrollment and offer engineering majors.

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My point, for the last time, was that while there may be some schools increasing their engineering undergrads, in the BIG PICTURE we are still talking about a small, albeit specialized subset of undergrads. Is that the 4th time you’ve responded? Let.It.Go. Please. It doesn’t need to be dissected further.

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