From the article (and I know from observed experience that this is true)…
To be sure, comp-sci majors from top-tier schools can still get jobs.
Something to keep in mind when people say (as they often do here on CC) that it doesn’t matter where you go for CS.
The oversupply of CS grads will unfortunately continue to affect a lot of students. High school students should carefully consider their application plans - both choice of major and school. In many cases, the ROI may not meet expectations 4-5 years from now.
It isn’t just CS. In IB fewer analyst positions are being offered, intern class sizes reduced and banks are going back to their traditional target schools to fill their spots and maintain the relationships. Times like this alumni networks and the schools name recognition become more meaningful in providing a safety net.
Of course there will be exceptions and it is debatable as to the appropriateness of this dynamic, but it should be considered when contemplating outcomes.
I was way less clear in my post than I should have been. I was thinking about the job seeking process itself, not about CS majors or school rankings.
The job-seeking process can be incredibly challenging for most applicants. It’s disheartening to send out numerous applications only to be ghosted by the majority of potential employers. This experience can be frustrating and demoralizing. It’s important they know this is a common experience for many job seekers, and persistence is key. Don’t get discouraged—keep refining their resume, tailor their applications, and hone their interview skills. Their perseverance will eventually pay off.
How is this new? (I realize it IS new for folks who have only been paying attention for the last five years). I graduated into a recession in the 1970’s. I ordered 50 resumes at the local print shop (remember those? You paid per copy and “resume quality” paper was expensive) and the folks at career services laughed their heads off. They told me 200 was the “standard” order.
Nobody here is old enough to remember the class of 2009 and 2010?
And I guess the tech bust of 2001 is ancient history? It got subsumed by the overall slowdown after 9/11, but by Feb/March of 2001 (so months before the attacks) companies had already slashed their tech hiring targets and were retracting offers.
Anyone smart enough to predict the labor markets and hiring cycles in advance is not hanging out on CC. They are eating fresh sushi off the deck of their boat in the Seychelles and waiting for their scuba instructor to arrive.
I think this is the issue as you described it so well - all the youngsters today (rightfully so) and their parents have been blinded by the wave of undersupply and overdemand of workers over the past few years as companies overhired.
Interestingly, growth is still here vs. other washouts - but companies are realizing they can do more with less and perhaps in their zest to not be understaffed, hired so many that even with continued growth, are now well over staffed.
Rightfully so? Kids are smart enough to get a degree in CS but not smart enough to understand that labor markets are cyclical?
I’ve got a new neighbor who has bought into the real estate broker fiction that home prices only go up, never down. The rest of us chuckle when he pontificates about how his home is the best investment he ever made. Many of us bought at the bottom of the cycle when every other house on the block had a “for sale” sign and the original owners were desperate to get out, no matter how much money they’d lose. So yeah, we’ve all got paper gains, but we remember the look on the faces of the sellers at closing.
This- squared and cubed for the labor markets (which are more nimble and can react faster than the housing market.)
We teach history (and this isn’t really history) but unfortunately people, including parents, don’t learn from it.
Dang, I bought my current home in 2006 and it was down 30% at least by 2008 - i’ll never forget.
You are correct and that’s what pains me about all the posts we say here about this school or that school or this major.
An education is always a good thing - but provides no guaranteed outcome. And the crazy thing is, relatively, times are still ok. - just not en fuego like last year and before.
I wonder, if my son graduated this year, if he’d have had the ease of offers he did.
I’ll never know but…
His company, for what it’s worth, hired another class of 150 for the program he is in, same as last year.
Yep. One kid we know hired by consulting firm was delayed for a year Other had offer delayed after internship as they were in the process of layoffs (he was ultimately hired).
Slight digression here, but a lot of U.S. & world history classes in high schools barely get past World War II. Maybe if they’re lucky they might have a flying leap through the Cold War and end with the fall of the Berlin Wall or the collapse of the Soviet Union. As far as anything that’s happened in the last 30 years? The vast majority of schools have taught bupkus, with respect to history.
That said, yes, it is important to realize that there are cycles of bust and boom (and usually something in between) whether that relates to the labor market, real estate market, etc.
I was referencing that while we learn history (and speaking to the levels you mention), we don’t really learn from it - hence so many horrific things seem to be rearing its head toward happening again - in our own communities and globally.
It doesn’t matter the era - it’s easy to learn about it and think that’s bad - but it seems hard to prevent similar things from rearing their ugly head again.
Heck, some of the trash that we call politicians - directly quote from these folks who were a dark stain on our history.
I think you’re right. None of these kids know about how bad 2008-2009 was.
I mean, even here in Houston, where people put solid gold bathroom fixtures in their homes in the 80s because they got to keep it under the generous homestead exemption from bankruptcy, it’s been so long since the shale boom started that younger people (like Millennials) have no idea what a real energy boom/bust cycle looks like.
I don’t know the broader hiring landscape, but given the tightness in the venture capital market, startups like my son’s are less likely to hire as aggressively as they did when VC was flowing. They used to work regularly with interns from Stanford during the school year and summer when their office was near the campus. Located elsewhere, I don’t believe that they have been working as much with interns.
When companies aren’t actively hiring, the value of interns diminishes. Interns require training, which consumes the time of paid employees. During hiring periods, interns serve as a trial run and may be encouraged to apply for or offered positions if they perform well. However, when there’s no immediate need for new employees, the benefits of having interns are limited to fostering goodwill or corporate benevolence.
Internships can be a great way to test potential hires, but when there’s no immediate need for new employees, the cost-benefit ratio might not favor bringing interns on board.
That page states that 52% were underemployed a year after college graduation, and 45% of those remained underemployed after ten years.
It also has the following:
Summary:
College major matters. But not all common assumptions about college majors and job prospects are correct.
Internships greatly help for getting post-graduation college-level jobs. However, that brings up the question of getting the internship in the first place.
“Graduates of more selective institutions are less likely to experience underemployment than those who attended more inclusive institutions.” So no surprise that students choosing between admission offers tend to prefer more selective colleges, at least if finances permit.
Being female and not Black or Hispanic seems to be favorable in avoiding underemployment after college graduation.
