Just another day in the neighborhood

Parent Cafe
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<p>That should be a no brainer!!! I just can’t understand it. One of my Ds is very thin. Always has been. She’s very healthy but very thin. Eats like a trooper. From the time she was little, people would make comments on her size. They thought it was okay to do because she was THIN. It embarrassed her as much as a comment made to an overweight child would.</p>

<p>Anyway, a bit off topic. Bottom line, the schools are being asked to do too much and are becoming overzealous in attempts to control every aspect of a child’s life.</p>

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And thet actual education part gets lost in the shuffle.</p>

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<p>Another thing I’ll have to warn my kids about. Never answer personal questions on a school survey that isn’t anonymous. The teacher gave good advice.</p>

<p>While I can see how the information can be useful to a school, in one instance it was not well used at my Ds’ school. In 8th grade, the kids and parents are invited (required) to attend an informational meeting about the HS. When D1 went, the meeting started out positively, all rah-rah you’ll love it here. Then it went downhill fast as the guidance department spent a long time going over the details of a recent student mental health survey. X percent report a high level of stress. Y percent report being depressed. Z percent have contemplated suicide. Etc. In a presentation to 8th graders, many of whom are already nervous about the move to the high school? Really? I was not the only parent who contacted the administration. The following year at D2’s meeting, they only mentioned that they do a survey.</p>

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<p>I actually live in the community in question, and totally agree with jym’s take on the validity of the survey results. The whole thing seems ill-conceived from the very start. The community is fairly unanimous in their support for the teacher’s actions. He is known for being unconventional, but also for being one of the most-respected teachers in the school. </p>

<p>While I believe the district had the well-being of their students in mind when they pursued this very flawed approach, how they are using the results is another huge hornet’s nest. One of my friends has 2 kids at the HS, a senior and a freshman. The senior was smart enough, after seeing the questions, to ask if he had to take the survey, and was told no. The freshman, however, having learned to trust authority figures, did take the survey and answered honestly. She was later called to her counselor’s office and told that based on her responses, she was mildly depressed. Did the school call her parents? Of course not. While she shared the conversation with her parents, what if she didn’t have a good relationship with them? And how on earth is the already over-worked counseling staff supposed to have the time to properly address all of the needs (true or fictitious) that the survey revealed?</p>

<p>The other thing the Board is having to face is their refusal to release the survey so parents can see what questions were asked. It was purchased from a private contractor and they are claiming it is proprietary information.</p>

<p>All in all, a horrible decision from the get-go.</p>

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<p>Maybe they are “reliable” in that sense, mini, but I have concerns about their validity. They may have face validity, but not much else. These kind of self report measures have problems. Where are those math posters/statisticians when we need them? ;)</p>

<p>Thanks for the update, Illinoismom2006. What a mess! Please keep us posted!</p>

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<p>We’ve had the statisticians poring over these for more than 30 years. They are extremely accurate, with statistical validity ranges well assigned (according to sample size). We know how to test for and invalidate surveys that are unlikely to have been answered honestly, and have focus groups on every single question in order to predict - accurately - both whether wording of questions is likely to be understood and to elicit honest responses.</p>

<p>This is one of the biggest questions in the social sciences, and millions of dollars (and quite literally dozens of Ph.Ds) have been expended on these concerns.</p>

<p>We would post all of the questions on-line, including the survey results, by school district, and freely give copies of the survey questions to any and all parents who would ask.</p>

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<p>If statisticians have pored over them for years, then they will be aware of the problems inherent in self report anonymous data. Especially if the surveys are voluntary, there is a self selected group. Not saying there isnt some usefulness in self report, but there are limits on its validity for research purposes.</p>

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<p>They are all we have. How else can we get any ideas of what is what? In certain small numbers situations, they can be terribly skewed. My son’s small private school fills these things out, and though no names are on them, one can easily figure out who is who on just about anything at that school, the teachers and staff know those kids so well. And the kids know it and are suspicious. According to their surveys most years, there are hardly any drugs there, and I know that is not so. Or some outrageous conclusion. Those kids often collude on the surveys as well. That is what can happen in small samplings. But once you get large numbers, the reliability goes up.</p>

<p>The names should NOT have been on those questionairres and I don’t think the teacher did anything wrong. Hopefully, he gets fully exonerated and the school gets put in its place for this.</p>

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<p>Reliability doesnt equal validity. But yes, anonymous surveys are better than face to face or telephone surveys, if memory serves me correctly.</p>

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<p>Exactly. I’m a teacher and believe me, there is no shortage of things that need to be done in the best interest of the students but why are some schools looking for things to do? Especially when the reliability is suspect?</p>

<p>Calling a student to the guidance office and diagnosing her as mildly depressed based on her answers to a survey is ridiculous!!! Give me a break!</p>

<p>And not notifying parents of minors? Are they for real?</p>

<p>Could they just stick to the business of educating students and leave the rest to the professionals who are trained to handle the other things? I’m not saying that a child’s emotional health should not be addressed at school. Clearly it is. I spend a good portion of my week addressing issues related to socio/emotional issues. But I don’t go turning over rocks to look for problems. I have quite enough to do just meeting the requirements that my school system and the state place on me in terms of providing my students with a quality education in my subject area.</p>

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<p>“If statisticians have pored over them for years, then they will be aware of the problems inherent in self report anonymous data.”</p>

<p>They are. And it is really easy to control for them, once you know how, to arrive at statistically reliable and valid results.</p>

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<p>What California is collecting nowadays. I remember a few years ago, a letter from the Cal Dept of Health came home extolling the virtues of their survey and why it was the most efficient use of their resources to conduct the survey in the schools. </p>

<p>Too bad. I just said, ‘No thanks’.</p>

<p>[CHKS</a> | California Healthy Kids Survey](<a href=“http://chks.wested.org/]CHKS”>http://chks.wested.org/)</p>

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<p>I have absolutely no problem with the data collection. And I strongly favor it, and the data collected are far more useful than anything that comes out of those standardized tests. What I do object to is a screening instrument masquerading as a survey.</p>

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<p>I remember being weighed in the locker room when I was on the dance/drill deam. Yikes, who does that? I also recall when DD was in elementary school, for open house night one of the teachers had every kids weight on their desks. He was a clueless guy, but tiny cute blonde Susie weighed 55# and big gawky Sharon weighed 100#. Now Sharon reached adult hood as a lovely graceful dancer, bout 5’8"-5’10" and is actually slender, but that open house weigh in made her feel like a cow:(</p>

<p>Personally I wonder where information is being aggregated for anything, e-surveys, facebook, twitter, etc. Is some database some where tracking it all and linking it? Is anything really anonymous? What about EMR and physicians asking me about guns in my house? Asking me & my DH if we feel safe in our relationship?</p>

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<p>I agree with many of the comments expressed here. I think the teacher was correct to point out to the kids that these “surveys” had their names on them and the students had the right NOT to answer. I see a lot of issues when these docs are circulated – it could be a liability issue as well if a student indicated problems and isn’t promptly given appropriate help. </p>

<p>I recall helping weigh students as a parent volunteer in grade school. They lined up and I weighed them one after another. Sometimes there would be a 100 pound difference between two students in the same grade–one very petite while the other was huskier. It was done rather publicly and matter-of-factly. No counseling or advice followed. The data ( without names) but with heights and ages and genders was transmitted to the state and I don’t know of anything that happened beyond that.</p>

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<p>my kids took pride in making up loopy answers for those questionnaires. It’s hard to imagine that kids are answering them accurately when anonymous, and horrendous to imagine a clearly wrong-headed approach of screening as is does here.</p>

<p>And I don’t buy this faux caring–“we need to do something about the suicide/drug/whatever rate”–what makes them so sure that school is the place that will “fix” these things? How do they know they will be successful and more knowledgeable than families are? This whole idea that everything can be fixed in schools is the flip side of the assertion that teachers in more troubled schools are supposed to be able to perform the miracle of attaining the same education success as occurs in affluent districts.</p>

<p>It remains true that what happens outside of school has far more influence than inside. It’s arrogant on the administration’s part to suppose they can test for states of mind–just another version of standardized testing coupled with standardized labeling.</p>

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<p>The school board met last night and there was an overflow crowd in attendance. Despite overwhelming community support, the board supported the district officials in reprimanding the teacher. Here is a copy of the email that the superintendent sent out to the community:</p>

<p>"Dear Members of the BPS101 Community:</p>

<p>During a regularly scheduled Batavia Public School District 101 board meeting this evening (Tuesday), the Board of Education approved a Resolution Authorizing a Notice of Remediation to a Batavia High School teacher. A notice to remedy is a written warning issued by a school board that warns the employee of improper conduct and the possible consequences thereof.</p>

<p>Much of the information that was discussed in closed session is confidential and cannot be shared. Please rest assured that during the review of this employee matter, the Board of Education was given all of the facts, which may or may not be the same as information you may have read in the newspaper or on social media websites.</p>

<p>That said, there is some context that I feel would be appropriate to share.
In this case, District teachers, social workers, guidance counselors, psychologists and others worked together for over a year to select a data-gathering instrument that could be used to determine what social or emotional issues our high school students are experiencing, and whether individual students could benefit from new or increased supportive intervention by our staff. These purposes were shared with our parents and our teachers.</p>

<p>The issue before the Board tonight was whether one employee has the right to mischaracterize the efforts of our teachers, counselors, social workers and others; and tell our students, in effect, that the adults are not here to help, but that they are trying to get you to “incriminate” yourselves.</p>

<p>Disagreement with District initiatives has happened before and it will happen again. What the BPS101 Board does not, and will not support, is any employee giving students false impressions about the motivations of those who come here every day to try to improve the lives of the students entrusted to our care. At no time was student discipline discussed or contemplated as a response to disclosures made by our students.</p>

<p>I understand that some people feel we could have done a better job explaining our goals and a better job working hand in hand with parents on these sensitive issues, and we will. The Board has asked my administration to take steps in the future to increase parental awareness and transparency when gathering data about sensitive issues such as mental health or substance abuse issues. When a plan of action is developed, we have agreed to share those details with our community.</p>

<p>We understand and appreciate the concern shown by our parents and our staff members for the welfare of our students. In all things we do, the best interests of the students must, and will, always come first.</p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>Dr. Jack Barshinger
Superintendent"</p>

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<p>What a bunch of baloney. Obviously, CYA comes first for that superintendant. What really makes them mad at the teacher is that his action outed an inappropriate screening tool.</p>

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<p>Malarkey for sure. Yes, they know better what the best interests of the students are–better than parents, better than teachers, better than students.</p>

<p>Disgraceful.</p>

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<p>I agree. Many civil rights have been and continue to be violated in people’s “own best interest”. </p>

<p>I’m not one to jump on the lawsuit band wagon, but if I were this teacher, I would consider a lawsuit.</p>