<p>This is a situation where a well-meaning desire to help students with problems collided head-on with privacy rights, which is what the teacher pointed out. It’s painful sometimes when civil rights come with a cost. We’ve had discussions here before about things like breathalyzing every kid who enters the prom–which, in my opinion, is another example of an erosion of personal freedom in the service of well-meaning desires to protect kids.</p>
<p>I also wonder what the school district would have done had a student, whose parent had not returned the opt-out letter, refused to complete the survey (without any prompting from a teacher).</p>
<p>In our district, the kid could refuse if they wanted to. Agree with above that school screenings aren’t the best place. And yes, schools aren’t coverec by HIPAA. If all at-risk kids showed up in my office or the counselor’s office that would be great. But they don’t.</p>
<p>The problem is that even if big brother consequences weren’t the intended outcome, they could still and likely would still happen. What are the protocols in place for storage of those documents? For their destruction? Exactly what use is appropriate (could the well meaning guidance counselor mention their contents in college applications?), to whom could the results be disseminated? We have all seen examples of confidential documents dumped on the street. Once these documents exist out of control of the parents, all manner of mischief is possible, no matter the original intent. I would never, ever allow my kid to fill out a document. Think Susie is a little depressed now? Let Janie who doesn’t like her and is the student assistant in the guidance office spread the document or its contents to the school population and next thing Susie has hung herself. The possible good that could come out of these documents, which is very minimal and unlikely, is so far outweighed by the probable negative consequences that these should never have been given to the kids. Teacher is right on the money.</p>
<p>In full agreement with Zoos. And thinking back to the recent thread on suicide, it seems like well-meaning hubris on the part of the school to think they can “solve” such a complex situation with a standardized questionnaire.</p>
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<p>“Likely” based on what evidence?</p>
<p>Based on the countless, documented examples of confidential documents dumped in the street.</p>
<p>Based on the fact that the parents were not provided with an official confidentiality policy nor an official document retention policy nor an official use policy nor an official document destruction policy. The absence of those documents means that the attendant policies are not in place. Any kid whose confidentiality is breached will sue and will win big because prudent legal advice was not sought here. Someone had an idea to “help the children” and never considered practical realities.</p>
<p>Common sense is a beautiful thing annasdad, the proper way to handle such a policy would have been to have sought legal advice and followed it. That didnt happen so the program had already failed.</p>
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<p>The school could certainly initiate a disciplinary action; whether it would stand up in court is another matter. If the student’s family doesn’t have the inclination or the resources to get legal representation to contest the action, it’s a moot point. And the family would be out the resources needed to hire attorneys, not to mention having the student’s name being tied to a public case (and hence googleable in all perpetuity).</p>
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<p>Agreed, but that does not excuse the school from not considering the ways in which this information can be misused. If they’re gathering sensitive information, they have a responsibility to protect it. </p>
<p>D1 and D2’s middle school required campus visitors to sign in. No problem, except they also wanted us to write down our drivers license number. I asked what they did with the used sheets. They were just tossed in the trash. :eek: I complained to the school administration about that, said they should be shredded. Next visit, same request for drivers license info. I just made up random license numbers after that.</p>
<p>Would the police be able to subpoena these forms as part of a student’s record if they made a drugs-related arrest?</p>
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<p>Can you cite ONE documented example of THIS school district dumping confidential documents in the street? </p>
<p>Or, for that matter, ONE documented example of ANY Illinois school district dumping confidential documents in the street? </p>
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<p>Ah, but they are. And publicly accessible to anyone who is interested. </p>
<p><a href=“Board Policy | BPS101”>Board Policy | BPS101;
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<p>Yes, and getting the FACTS and supporting opinions with DATA before posting unsupported opinions is even more beautiful.</p>
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<p>Not everyone, garland, in fact not the huge majority of posters, who are obviously intelligent people whose posts are worth reading.</p>
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The statement would not be protected by any formal privilege, so there would be no firm legal bar to its use in evidence against a student who made admissions in the survey. That is, some communications (doctor/patient, attorney/client, priest/penitent) are considered legally privileged. There is no such thing as a student/teacher or school-form privilege.
There is no legal impediment to them doing exactly that.
There is no legal reason why the school could not use the statement in one survey as the basis for commencing an investigation, including interviewing the students involved, using that information as a basis for searching the implicated kid’s locker for evidence, or referring the matter to the police so that they could do their own investigation. The written statement by itself would be hearsay and not admissible in a court of law, except under very narrow circumstances.
<a href=“I%20mean,%20of%20course,%20a%20real%20legal%20opinion,%20not%20an%20uninformed%20anonymous%20CC%20opinion.”>quote</a>
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My law degree is real. I am really informed in the law. I post anonymously on CC because I value my own privacy as well as that of others.</p>
<p>Annasdad, did you even read what you posted? I did and it says that notification is available upon request. Not good enough in this instance. The policy also states that school officials shall not request the identity of any student who completes such a survey. Therefore, the survey violated the district’s own policy. There is also no document retention or destruction policy noted. Parents should not have to hire a lawyer to deal with this stuff.</p>
<p>As I said, I would not allow my kids to complete such a survey and there have been countless examples of confidential documents dumped in my area by governmental officials, therefore I am confident that it happens everywhere.</p>
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<p>No, it would not violate FERPA. FERPA specifically allows disclosure of school records to state and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system. See: [Family</a> Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) | U.S. Department of Education](<a href=“http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html]Family”>Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA))</p>
<p>Depending on the nature of the information disclosed in a survey, it could be argued that the school has a legal obligation to disclose. </p>
<p>That’s why the whole thing is such an idiotic liability nightmare to the school. By distributing that survey, they are putting themselves on the line. They can be sued for improperly disclosing information, and they can be sued for failing to disclose. The school can definitely expect those records to be subpoenaed in the event that any student commits suicide or suffers serious injury in an attempted suicide in the future, as well as any case in which a student does harm to others.</p>
<p>Yes, zoosermom, I read what you wrote. You said it was “likely” the information would be misused. Then when I questioned that you referred to “countless documented” cases.</p>
<p>What I have not yet read is your response to my request to actually cite ONE of those “countless documented” cases that involved one of the 800-plus Illinois school districts. Much less cite enough such cases to support your claim that such an outcome is “likely.”</p>
<p>And I am waiting for you to acknowledge that what you posted didn’t address my concerns, snark aside. When surveys are created, they usually involve gathering information from similar entities. Therefore, if the largest school district in the country has had difficulty with maintaining confidentiality, and managing appropriate document destruction procedures, then that is an issue which must be considered and addressed. Which it does not appear to have been. Unquestionably, such policies were not provided to parents in advance of the survey.
Therefore, an impasse. I would err on the side of caution based on experience in my area. You should feel free to make other choices for your family.</p>
<p>annasdad, zoosermom didn’t ask if you’d read what she wrote. She asked if you’d read what you posted (namely, the Batavia policy about student privacy). Which means that you didn’t really read what she wrote, but we’ll let that go. :)</p>
<p>I’ve read the Batavia policy link you provided, and as zoosermom writes, the school was indeed in violation of its own policy.</p>
<p>So acknowledged, zoosermom, and herewith remedied. </p>
<p>The school’s records policy, publicly available to anyone with an Internet account:</p>
<p><a href=“Board Policy | BPS101”>Board Policy | BPS101;
<p>Incorporates by reference the Illinois School Records Act, likewise available:</p>
<p><a href=“105 ILCS 10/ Illinois School Student Records Act.”>105 ILCS 10/ Illinois School Student Records Act.;
<p>And which specifies the regulations for retention and access to student records applicable to all public school districts in Illinois. </p>
<p>So your assertion that the attendant policies were not in place appears to be without justification. </p>
<p>And I still await a citation to one of those “countless documented” cases. Until you can provide that I agree, we are at an impasse.</p>
<p>You obviously have an Internet account, so I am sure you can find plenty of examples. But here is just one
[Students</a>’ Private Records Dumped on Street: Report | NBC New York](<a href=“Students’ Private Records Dumped on Street: Report – NBC New York”>Students’ Private Records Dumped on Street: Report – NBC New York)</p>
<p>Also, the stated retention policy is ambiguous in this specific instance and was not presented to the parents in context. There is no question that legal advice was either not sought or not heeded because a clear policymwould have been set out as part of an affirmative consent procedure as much to protect the district as the students. sometimes people who mean really well and do much good forget that intentions, alone, don’t solve problems. Fact of the matter is that this was a foolish policy, badly implemented, and I am sure that if the usual suspects had been in favor of it you would be opposing it. But that’s what makes this site interesting.</p>
<p>Your example is nearly four years old and not from an Illinois school district. Hardy supports a claim of “countless documented.” </p>
<p>I’ve refuted your claim that there was no policy. There clearly was. Awaiting your acknowledgement? </p>
<p>And as far as what I do and do not oppose, I’ve stated no opinion on the controversy here, only called out your overstatement.</p>
<p>Yes, there is a policy. It is ambiguous in the current situation and was not appropriately or timely communicated to parents.
I did not say any breaches of confidentiality had occurred in Illinois. What I did say was that, based on instances in my area, I deem it likely that such breaches would be likely to happen elsewhere and, therefore, I would not allow my children to complete such a survey.
So what you are saying is that you choose to particpate in this discussion solely by being contentious? Ok, that’s cool. At least you are open about it. I respect that.</p>