Keep your child off military recruitment lists, and tell your neighbors

<p>“May I remind everyone that military recruiters are soldiers; They are doing their duty, have an obligation to our country and are under orders.”</p>

<p>Then prosecute their higher-ups as well under the RICO statutes. It is a criminal conspiracy to conspire to knowingly make false promises, even orally, or those which you are incapable of honoring, regardless of what small print in a contract says. The military should not be above the law, and the difficulty of the job has nothing to do with it.</p>

<p>I’ve seen first hand the process military recruiters will use to sway teens toward enlisting. My oldest son would be in the marines right now, if I hadn’t stepped in to give him perspective. A couple years ago, when my son was a hs senior, he spoke with a recuiter in his hs. Very impressive, sharp-looking young marine. He asked my s to meet with him at our home, and I allowed it only if I was present (I shouldn’t have even let it go this far). He started out by asking my son to identify the 5 most important goals in his life, giving him a stack of flashcards with statements like “Secure Employment”, “Respect from Family and Friends”, “College Education”, “Travel”, “Professional Career”, “Keeping your family and country safe”, “Being a strong man” etc. My s put them in his order, and the marine proceded to tell him how joining up with put him on the “fast-track” to all his highest goals, even paying for college after his tour of duty (…if he lives through it, I was thinking…). “Just think of the financial pressure you’d take off your folks, if the Marines picked up the tab?” I stepped in with a couple contradictory comments at this point. My son plays trumpet, and the marine knew this. The recuiter then said my son would have a good shot at a spot in the Marine Band, if he enlisted. I had heard enough by now, seeing the stars in my son’s eyes, and brought the “interview” to a respectful close. Talking with my s about it two years later, he said at the time (when he was 17), he was totally in awe of that guy, with his crisp uniform and smooth speech, and would have believe anything he said. He said he’d never, ever dare to think that someone in the US military would steer him wrong. If I wasn’t there, he would have signed in a heart-beat, but not truly realizing what such a commitment entailed. I think, bottom line, is kids age 17 aren’t given the whole picture of what enlistment entails. If the real picture was laid out for them, honest pro’s and con’s, and students decide to join, that’s fine. I just think young guys are too vulnerable and naive, and recruiters aren’t telling them the whole story.</p>

<p>A lot of the posts on this thread really anger me. I am a soon to be high school freshman. I was in JROTC in high school so I had a lot of dealings with recruiters. The pushed hard to get me to go to one of the academies, but I told them that I really didn’t think it was for me and they understood and left it at that. The recruiters open opportunities for a lot of kids. There are so many kids in high schools that don’t have any directions and often these recruiters help to give them that. Of course they are doing it to gain another soldier in the military, but I have known almost every recruiter to give kids honest advice and help in tutoring, informing, and talking to kids parents about what the military has to offer. They really have done so much for a couple kids that I was acquainted with at school who would have most definately dropped out of high school were it not for the opportunities the military offered. All you have to do is tell the recruiters that your child is not interested. They will stop. Really. And is getting a Navy mailing once a month really all that bad? Just remember your child is not the only one getting these mailings. If the mailings go to 100 kids and 90 of those know what they are doing in life, that is great - the military could care less, but the lives of those other 10 could be enhanced so greatly by the steady work that they are given and the educational possibilities that are available. It just seems awfully selfish of many of you who have your careers locked down to say that recruiters need to just stay out of our lives. Remember without the military, all of your lives are put in jeopardy.</p>

<p>"Then prosecute their higher-ups as well under the RICO statutes. It is a criminal conspiracy to conspire to knowingly make false promises, "</p>

<p>yeah…TREASON is also against the law</p>

<p>Sure is - prosecute 'em both. </p>

<p>If our lives are in jeopardy without the military, recruiters and their higher-ups should be able to make an honest case, with both the risks and benefits, and let the minors and their families decide. If they can’t be honest, then lock 'em up.</p>

<p>no F that i meant all the ppl in here whining about overstepping boundaries thats all a bunch of nonsense</p>

<p>bcgousc
what parents across the country are saying is that no- they won’t stop
it may be your experience that the recruiters were honorable and followed rules of common sense that said not to push when it was a lost cause.
However, other recruiters are not as restrained and apparently have used tactics that would put used car salesmen to shame.
Just as my daughter a senior at Reed college had a very different experience than Steve JObs founder of apple computers had ( he had to drop out due to low financial aid-she has received very generous aid) this is a big country, and lots of different experiences.</p>

<p>and I realize that the military and the govt can be two seperate things but you might want to research who supported the Taliban when we only cared that they were anti-Communist.</p>

<p>TBS, just because <em>you</em> have not experienced overly aggressive recruiters does not mean that it does not happen, and frequently.</p>

<p>And your youth does not excuse throwing a word like “treason” around lightly, though I’m certainly aware that some of your elders are poor role models in being equally excessive in their hyperbole. A troubling minority, including some in very high office, certainly seem to confuse “loyalty” or “patriotism” with “mindless flag-waving nationalism.”</p>

<p>No sorry Im way more diehard than my parents about my loyalty.They dont coach me on anything either…besides I just watch Fox News to gather information for myself</p>

<p>Not sure it’s productive to revive this thread, since I don’t think anybody is really convincing anybody else to change their mind. But still, I thought the recent news was pertinent to this thread. </p>

<p> <a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/washpost/20050623/tc_washpost/pentagon_creating_student_database[/url]”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/washpost/20050623/tc_washpost/pentagon_creating_student_database&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>TBS- what did you mean by treason…just curious…
Is it treason to question or goverment and its leaders?</p>

<p>I meant it is treasonous to be against our government just for the sake of being against it. The ppl who dont want our recruiters recruiting are the same ones who have always been against us. And the others are just overly protective mothers who think its ok to stop a process that basically in the lowest sense catches/kills terrorists more effectively than checking baggage at the airport ever could.</p>

<p>TBS, you have a sloppy equivalence of “always against us (the United States)” = “always against this war.” It’s a prime example of substituting shallow flag-waving nationalism for patriotism. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, I worked for the federal government (US Navy) on the F-14’s fire control system as well as on Capitol Hill. I supported Desert Shield/Desert Storm and the invasion of Afghanistan, though it is pathetic how the administration has conceived, planned, and executed the post-conflict scene there as well.</p>

<p>In contrast, as conceived, planned, and executed, every son, daughter, husband, wife that comes home from Iraq in a coffin is a waste.</p>

<p>Btw, reagarding Faux News, one of their senior people gave a hilarious interview over in England. Alas, it hasn’t made a ripple here. But, in the words of Ross Perot, you can check it out:</p>

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<p>Their motto should be “We distort, you cheer us on.”</p>

<p>TBS – I’m not even sure what to make of your statement. I can only assume that you mean that people who (1) have serious questions about the activities of the government in Iraq, and whether it is the best use of our military, and/or (2) who have serious questions about the actions of some of the military recruiters (actions that the government itself considers to be inappropriate) are “against our government just for the sake of being against it”. If I’m “against” our government on an issue, I assure you that it’s because I disagree with how the government is handling the issue, not just for the sake of being against the government. </p>

<p>I won’t even get into the fact that your definition of “treason” is much broader than the legal one – which is the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government.</p>

<p>For a government official to act in the pay of a foreign government against his own country is treason. For a government official to act in the pay of a multinational corporation against the interests of his own people is just good business.</p>

<p>As for the recruiters, let them do their business honestly. If they can’t, lock 'em up like any other individuals involved in criminal conspiracies. (and their bosses, too).</p>

<p>New Update:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160406,00.html[/url]”>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160406,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Military and school records</p>

<p>I guess homeschoolers will have their privacy maintained</p>

<p>TheDad are you trying to say that you dont support school recruiting because you are against the Iraq War? And this is an act against the government because without troops to fight our wars we have no country.</p>

<p>“Their motto should be “We distort, you cheer us on.””</p>

<p>So whats your point? Are you trying to tell me that no other news stations are biased? Oh and btw something like 90% of all reporters are liberal…i wonder why the news ppl only report on how many american deaths there are but never how many insurgents we have killed…not even a rough estimate which the military obviously keeps track of</p>

<p>90% percent, interesting stat, where did that come from?</p>

<p>And we never here how many Iraqi civilians we have killed, oh yeah about 100,000</p>

<p>oh yeah sure but we dont care because we are obviously more worried about the 10 of our soldiers…right?! Isnt that wat it means when the news only reports on that?</p>

<p>TBS, I don’t give the government a blank check, particularly when the check is written in blood. And I never, ever, regardless of administration, make the error of equating the government with my country.</p>

<p>Most reporters will do their best to give as straight a take as they can. Personal ideological preferences accounts for a far smaller amount of “error” in reporting that does unfamliarity with specialized topics…a lot of journalists think they’re qualified to cover any story because they’re journalists. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen a Bradley AFV referred to as a tank, a fighter as a bomber, etc. Also, with respect to Iraq, a decent grounding in the history of the Middle East would be helpful…but I can see the journalist’s point of view: the people who planned this intervention didin’t bother so why should they?</p>

<p>As for insurgent body counts, you are in a very long line of people who confuse tactical success with strategic progress. If you were to track down quotes from past couple of months from the American generals in Iraq, you will find that even they say there is no end in sight and are beginning to use words like “political solutions.” Any political solutions that are stable for Iraq will represent an end state that will leave Americans feeling betrayed, as in “We fought for <em>this</em>?”</p>

<p>For just one day’s informative news out of Iraq:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>courtesy of <a href=“http://www.juancole.com%5B/url%5D”>www.juancole.com</a>, the most informative website that is thorough in its coverage of Iraq. As long as it is, the preceding is just a snippet of what’s on the website and I believe would fall within fair use.</p>