Keep your child off military recruitment lists, and tell your neighbors

Parent Cafe
81

<p>For all of you defending the mililtary recruiters - I don’t think I see posters saying, or even implying, that most recruiters are acting inappropriately. Clearly the majority are solid soldiers doing a necessary job, and doing it with dedication.</p>

<p>But there are a large number of complaints, and the military has admitted there are abuses - enough to warrant stopping all recruiting activities across the coungtry for a day to re-educate the recruiters. And if the mililtary is admitting it and taking this measure, you know there are problems! </p>

<p>fundingfather - you are correct that I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying people were enlisting. You said people were re-enlisting, and I did not notice that. My apologies.</p>

<p>However, I certainly do not see, in any way, shape, or form, the connection of WWII to the Iraq war. Nor do I see that we as Americans should try to see parallels to a situation of 60 years ago, when we were attacked, and when sovereign states formally declared war on each other. </p>

<p>Critics of the Iraq war frequently compare it to Vietnam, while proponents of the war compare it to WWII. It’s neither, and we get nowhere by fighting the last war (s).</p>

82

<p>When the recruiters come to my school, they set up a booth in the lunch hall, and let the students approach them. It seems to work well. Twelve kids from my class of just under 200 enlisted. I’d guess that number will double by this time next year, as it always does. As for the kids going to college, I have several friends who plan on joining ROTC this fall. I will be going to West Point.
As for the kids whose parents don’t want them in the military, I don’t know. I know of several kids whose parents made them talk to a recruiter (not enlist, just talk).
Alot of kids join the military at my school, but I don’t think we’re stupidly gung-ho or ignorant of what we have gotten into. About 50% of the kids in my school have a parent in the military. We all know people in Iraq right now. Most of my neighbors are in Iraq, getting ready to go, or just got back. I have several friends who graduated last year who are in Iraq. It’s always on our minds.
We’re not gung-ho war mongerers. Many don’t support the war (I’m undecided) and we have alot of heated discussions about it. That’s why I like reading these boards. It’s interesting to see other people’s opinions. I think it boils down to the individual kid and what they believe in, and what they want to do. Regardless of recruiters and parents, they will do what suits them best, whether it’s going to college, joining the military, or getting a job.</p>

83

<p>Fundingfather: You do realize that you are characterizing accurate reporting as being a demonstration of the “liberal bias” you perceive in the media? It is true that in WWII the the American press cooperated in what can only be described as propaganda (I recommend “Flyboys” - a sympathetic portrayal of WWII pilots including GWBush which candidly discusses the hypocrisy of the media at the time). But the fact remains that most media are <strong>owned</strong> by conservatives. Calling the media “liberal” is blaming the messenger for telling the truth every once in a while.
For the record: I consider the military to be an honorable profession. There’s more honesty in most members of the armed forces than in the Washington chicken hawks who spend out children’s lives like they spend their future incomes by running deficits in order to cut taxes for the uberwealthy. But that’s a topic for another day…</p>

84

<p>Interesting, relevant article out today by an attorney and former Clinton aide whose husband is a Marine in Iraq.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-25-douquet-edit_x.htm[/url]”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-25-douquet-edit_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

85

<p>emeraldkitty, it is my understanding, and I could be wrong about this, that you have to be 18 to sign up for the military. Anyone under that age (say a 17 year old senior) would need to get a parental signature as well. So, I would say at least there is that safeguard built in.</p>

86

<p>right you do need to be 18 to enlist without parental permission, but students who are minors are signing forms that indicate intention to enlist and are told at signing that they can back out before they graduate- however if they try and do so, they are apparently told that they then will be arrested.

</p>

87

<p>

</p>

<p>Accurate reporting that focuses on only one side of a story is the definition of bias.</p>

88

<p>So with regard to what you call the “Rather” incident, focussing on the fact that documents were faked while ignoring the fact that all knowledgible witnesses agreed that the documents <strong>accurately</strong> reflected the opinion of the purported author would meet your definition of bias?</p>

89

<p>Fundingfather</p>

<p>if you would please share what you consider fair and unbiased reporting, that would be wonderful and eyeopening…</p>

90

<p>I just wish they had disclosure forms for the military - on death rates, injury rates, medical benefits, etc.</p>

<p>I’ll go back to my “freedom fries”.;)</p>

<p>Wednesday May 25, 2005
The Guardian </p>

<p>It was a culinary rebuke that echoed around the world, heightening the sense of tension between Washington and Paris in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. But now the US politician who led the campaign to change the name of french fries to “freedom fries” has turned against the war. </p>

<p>Walter Jones, the Republican congressman for North Carolina who was also the brains behind french toast becoming freedom toast in Capitol Hill restaurants, told a local newspaper the US went to war “with no justification”. </p>

<p>Mr Jones, who in March 2003 circulated a letter demanding that the three cafeterias in the House of Representatives’ office buildings ban the word french from menus, said it was meant as a “light-hearted gesture”. </p>

<p>But the name change, still in force, made headlines around the world, both for what it said about US-French relations and its pettiness. </p>

<p>Now Mr Jones appears to agree. Asked by a reporter for the North Carolina News and Observer about the name-change campaign - an idea Mr Jones said at the time came to him by a combination of God’s hand and a constituent’s request - he replied: “I wish it had never happened.” </p>

<p>Although he voted for the war, he has since become one of its most vociferous opponents on Capitol Hill, where the hallway outside his office is lined with photographs of the “faces of the fallen”. </p>

<p>“If we were given misinformation intentionally by people in this administration, to commit the authority to send boys, and in some instances girls, to go into Iraq, that is wrong,” he told the newspaper. “Congress must be told the truth.”</p>

91

<p>YEAH, finally, a congressperson stepping up!!!</p>

92

<p>

</p>

<p>Oh, you mean Lt. Col. Hodges who said that he was tricked by CBS and is now convinced that they are fake? Or do you mean the son and widow of Killian who say that the documents do not at all reflect Killian’s views about Bush? I think trying to defend CBS, Rather, the documents or even their “intent” at this point is a little like saying Nixon had nothing to do with the cover up. The gig is up.</p>

93

<p>CGM, I have been pretty clear about what would constitute unbiased reporting. However, on top of being unbiased I think the media also needs to learn a bit about what responsible reporting is. Example: the Newsweek article indicated Rather-like bias by being willing to print something without fully vetting the sources. It also showed an amazing insensitivity to the repercussions of such a report in the Arab world. Now, the NY Times (and perhaps others) has crossed the line into irresponsible journalism by, knowing the deadly repercussions of such stories, willfully re-igniting them by re-surfacing the allegations (as I predicted, yesterday).</p>

<p>Wouldn’t it be nice if they spent half the time that they do on investigating our military on exposing the terrorists for their hypocrisy of being “violated” by the treatment of the Koran while they willfully slaughter innocent people?</p>

94

<p>I think you should take that up with Walter Jones.</p>

<p>(Don’t expect him to be interviewed on Fox tonight. ;))</p>

95

<p>I want to say that I appreciate this discussion very much.
Especially the respectful tone that differing viewpoints have taken ( for the most part)
My daughters high school as you probably have read about- is in the news for the PTA taking a vote to say publicly that they did not want recruiters in the schools. I disagreed with it- but the majority voted yes and it was a moot point anyway because of NCLB.
HOwever our high schools yahoo group, that we use to diseminate information has been bombarded with college students home on vacation,military veterans, and just general opponents of the PTAs decision.( from all over the country) Not only that but for the most part, they have been very rude, name calling, making threats etc, and have pretty much taken over the news group.
I want to point out to them that if they actually want a reasoned discussion, threatening someone and using a email adress that is libsareidiots, is hardly the way to win friends and influence people.( however I have stopped trying to explain anything, because when I explain where my views came from it whipped them into a frenzy- even though I had already said that I had voted to allow military recruiters on campus!)
So nice to have a discussion where people can put forth their views without questioning the humanity of those who think differently .</p>

96

<p>Funding father, please give me the names of magazines, news shows, radio programs, whatever that is unbiased. Where do you get your news? I want to see what I am missing. Where do you go for information? </p>

<p>But, since you didn’t in your last post share that information, and only pointed fingers again, I am in the dark, I guess.</p>

<p>What about the report from England, our allies, that showed Bush had plans for the war before hand and wanted to make the facts fit his plan…</p>

<p>Why aren’t the Bush girls in the military? </p>

<p>And by the way, the MILITARY said that it wasn’t the article that caused the problems…hmmmm</p>

<p>Please share what you consider unbiased…it must be out there because you have very strong views and articulate them well. So let us know so we can check them out.</p>

<p>I watch CSPAN, I watch MSNBC, I listen to Air America, I watch Fox, I read the Foriegn Press, I read Drudgereport, I read Huffington Post…I read it all…do you?</p>

97

<p>In fact, top U.S. military officials contended that other factors led to the violence in Afghanistan and Pakistan. As Myers noted in a May 12 Department of Defense news briefing, according to Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the commander of Combined Forces Command-Afghanistan, the violence “was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Quran” but was “more tied up in the political process and the reconciliation process that President [Hamid] Karzai and his Cabinet is conducting in Afghanistan.” Myers directly noted Eikenberry’s belief that the violence “was not at all tied to the article in the magazine.”</p>

98

<p>Magoo09 - Good Luck at WP! The AFA in my tag is for Air Force Academy. My son will be a cadet this year.
It is sad that some of you have had bad experiences with recruiters. My son made it clear on every form he filled out from his freshman year on that he was interested in the Academy or ROTC. The only recruiter that ever called our house was the Marines. The only reason they called was because my son would stop by their booth everytime they were at school to try to beat the school chin up record. My son talked to them once, told them he might be interested in ROTC if he didn’t get an AFA appointment and that was it. It is unforturnate that some schools feel it is necessary to ban the recruiters from the high schools. It is a very viable option for some students. I’m sure there are recruiters that lie to some of these kids. My son was lied to by more than one college recruiter when he took part in the college fair. He was told his major was available when upon further investigation, it wasn’t. One university told him of a full ride scholarship that was available to him. It was only available to kids in the state (not ours).<br>
My son received his appointment from a representative of the United States Air Force last week. It was a very special moment for my son, our family, his friends, and the teachers who have helped him with this goal. If our school had been one of the schools who have recently banned recruiters from their campuses, this ceremony would not have been allowed to take place. We were specifically asked by the Lt. Col. who was making the presentation if this was the case. How sad that would have been for a boy who has worked very hard to make this dream come true.</p>

99

<p>

What a great point. Yes, there is a lot of that going around on the civilian side, isn’t there? Let’s not forget the coaches, either. Congratulations to you and your son, AFAMom.</p>

100

<p>congratulations to your son AFAmom- my nephew had dreams to attend the air force academy but although he was admitted to Duke- he wasn’t meant to go to colorado springs.
I do want to point out though that while schools may have had problems with recruiters or not, if they actually ban military from campus they would no longer get federal money- so it would be fairly unusual to say the least to have a district take that stand.</p>