<p>“This from someone who doesn’t want her kid to hear any liberal opinions…”</p>
<p>If a teacher feels the need to state their opinion in a class that doesn’t warrant it…fine…just don’t state opinion as fact…that’s all.</p>
<p>^^^i don’t care if there is a consensus or not. if someone has done valid, peer-reviewed research in that area, why shouldn’t they be able “push” their own hypothesis in their own classroom?"</p>
<p>There is a professor of electrical engineering / computer science at Northwestern named Arthur Butz. He has done “research” on the Holocaust to the effect of essentially denying that it existed or that it killed the numbers of Jews that have been claimed, and has written a book to that effect which is used by many Holocaust deniers. Is Northwestern obligated to let him discuss that in the classroom?</p>
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<p>OP, I explicitly asked you about this very issue way way upthread. A professor in atmospheric sciences, chemistry, physics, and many other disciplines in the hard and biological sciences would not see this as a political issue. They’d see it as a scientific issue which absolutely belongs in the classroom. Same with discussing evolution in the biological sciences, though you’ve not commented on that. Yet. </p>
<p>I believe you are going to have a very difficult time finding many schools that meet your criteria.</p>
<p>geeps, it’s apparently NOT “fine.” You are looking specifically for colleges at which your HS freshman son will NOT hear liberal opinions from professors. Not only are you doing this – screening out colleges – you are doing it years before knowing what kind of college candidate your son will be. Obviously this is a big concern for you.</p>
<p>Or it’s not, and you started this thread for other purposes.</p>
<p>Slithey…I agree…that would be a great discussion for the classroom…if the teacher is preaching it as a fact though, and belittling any other views…then that would be wrong.</p>
<p>“This from someone who doesn’t want her kid to hear any liberal opinions…”</p>
<p>If a teacher feels the need to state their opinion in a class that doesn’t warrant it…fine…just don’t state opinion as fact…that’s all.“”</p>
<p>How about evolution, then? Theory / opinion or fact?</p>
<p>owlice…I don’t know how to be any clearer…I don’t want anything discussed as fact, if it is not…that goes for religion, global warming, whatever. A good professor will create an atmosphere where all views can be heard… no one being scorned or ridiculed.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl wrote:</p>
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<p>I guess I’d be curious how that passed a review of his peers? Was this published in a journal of electrical engineering?</p>
<p>I’m back to wondering how the 9th-grade son is so darn certain he can’t stomach the occasional liberal view. When I was in 9th grade, I couldn’t decide whether I wanted to be a rabbi, a Green Beret, or Mick Jagger. A few years later I wanted to be Pauline Kael, or maybe T.S. Eliot. My views changed a lot between 9th and 12th grade, and they changed even more between 12th grade and college graduation (and kept changing after that, too).</p>
<p>Nevertheless, this has been a pretty valuable thread for identifying some not-so-lefty LACs in New England that would be appropriate for the kid the OP is projecting on to her son.</p>
<p>Those nasty “liberal” scientists and mathematicians. First they insist that manmade global warming is real. Not only that, but can you believe it, my math professor belittles my views when I explain that (-5) minus 5 is zero! He says the mathematical consensus is, it’s minus ten. I try to explain that there are plenty of other people who believe the way I do, but he says we don’t know what we’re talking about. Where’s my freedom of speech, that’s what I’d like to know?</p>
<p>OP: What is your definition of “a fact?”</p>
<p>“I’m back to wondering how the 9th-grade son is so darn certain he can’t stomach the occasional liberal view”</p>
<p>Uh…simple… he tells me</p>
<p>…and again, not “occasional liberal view”…pushing, and or stating liberal opinion as fact. You don’t think that happens in high school?</p>
<p>My son’s 8th grade teacher was a vegetarian and couldn’t help expressing to her 8th grade students how bad it was to eat meat…maybe that’s when it started. Kids aren’t stupid.</p>
<p>If that was a serious question about Arthur Butz, his sorry excuse for “research” obviously has nothing to do with electrical engineering, wasn’t published in any scholarly journal, and didn’t successfully survive “peer review” by any historians other than his fellow Holocaust deniers. His discussing his theories in his classes wouldn’t be remotely analogous to the discussion of evolution in a biology class, or global warming in a class for which that was a relevant topic.</p>
<p>I understand that he can’t be fired for holding his crackpot views, since AFAIK he hasn’t tried to propagate them in his classroom. Still, for personal reasons, the fact that he’s a professor there, and that J. Michael Bailey is a professor there, are two reasons I would not have been happy if my son had been interested in Northwestern. Which he wasn’t.</p>
<p>Fang…care to guess how many scientists believe man made global warming is not a fact?</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who is chewing on some meat right now, eating meat is in fact bad for a variety of reasons. I agree that a middle-school teacher proselytizing for vegetarianism would be both inappropriate and annoying, though.</p>
<p>Don’t give us raw numbers, please. Give us the number as a percentage of all scientists who’ve expressed their viewpoint on the subject. And tell us about the credentials of these scientists, compared to the credentials of those who do comprise the consensus others have referred to.</p>
<p>If you do that, whatever number you come up with will prove to be, in essence, a mirage.</p>
<p>Is this where you trot out a few dead-enders who refuse to recognize reality? OK, I’ll guess the number if scientists who deny anthropogenic global warming is smaller than the the number of Steves in science who assert that it is real.</p>
<p>Interesting articles:</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090215.html]APOD:”>APOD: 2009 February 15 - Antarctic Ice Shelf Vista]APOD:</a> 2009 February 15 - Antarctic Ice Shelf Vista<a href=“Pro%20Global%20Warming”>/url</a>
[url=<a href=“http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet.htm]Growing”>http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet.htm]Growing</a> Antarctic Ice Sheet<a href=“Con%20Global%20Warming”>/url</a>
[url=<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2005/may/20/science/sci-icecap20]As”>As Climate Shifts, Antarctic Ice Sheet Is Growing]As</a> Climate Shifts, Antarctic Ice Sheet Is Growing - Los Angeles Times<a href=“Hmmm%20Global%20Warming”>/url</a></p>
<p>geeps20 wrote:</p>
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<p>ya see, this is what is raising the hair on the back of my neck about this whole thread. the OP starts out by aksing a seemingly harmless question and the next thing you know he is posing trick questions. Fang, no scientist worth his salt would answer a survey like that by saying global warming is a “fact”. there are no facts in research science, only theories with a certain probability.</p>
<p>The third link, I’m afraid, dates from 2005. The Antarctic ice sheet ain’t growing no more, whatever it was doing back then! The second one doesn’t have a date. The first one is very recent, and relates to what I referred to earlier. See also [As</a> effects of warming grow, UN report is quickly dated - On Line Opinion - 20/2/2009](<a href=“Error”>As effects of warming grow, UN report is quickly dated - On Line Opinion - 20/2/2009)</p>