<p>To help out, I’ll give examples of what kind of conservative/religious agenda-pushing I think would not work for my atheistic son.</p>
<p>Just fine: professors mentioning their religious faith, expressing their (supported) opinions of conservative and liberal political figures in the context of the subject matter of the class, requiring students to read conservative/religious authors relevant to the class subject, expressing free-market beliefs in econ class, allowing a variety of views on hot-button issues like immigration and gay rights in class when relevant to the subject, cutting off class discussion when it veers into disruptive advocating of a particular view</p>
<p>Inappropriate: professors talking about Christianity as if everyone in class was a believer, treating creationism as if it were worthy of serious scientific notice, requiring a particular political or religious point of view in class assignments, urging students to vote in a particular way, giving bad grades to students who have the “wrong” political or religious beliefs, denigrating certain religious beliefs or lack of beliefs</p>
<p>geeps20, sorry I haven’t read the entire thread and someone else may have pointed this out already, but the liberal in LAC does not indicate political leaning. According to Wikipedia, they are colleges that “develop the student’s ratiocination and intellectual capabilities.”</p>
<p>You say that your son “doesn’t want teacher’s expressing their political beliefs in classes that don’t warrant a political viewpoint…is that asking too much?”</p>
<p>Well of course not. I wouldn’t want to pay for a college education where the professors spent class time expressing anything that was unwarranted in the classroom. Have your son look for schools where he can expect professors to carry on like professionals.</p>
<p>Of course, if your son expects to develop his ratiocination and intellectual capabilities, then he will have to be able to reason with people with whom he disagrees on any topic and should be comfortable expressing his thought processes whether in an English essay, mathematical proof or class discussion. And he should be comfortable listening to others express themselves on relevant topics in class.</p>
OK, let’s reverse roles. If I said I don’t want my kids to go to schools where profs push their conservative viewpoints. Given that clear definition of “push conservative viewpoints” which schools should my kids avoid? What constitutes “pushing conservative viewpoints” would be very different to many people on this board. (whoops Cardinal Fang beat me to the point).</p>
<p>It’s a pity to tar all LACs with the same brush. Some (cough<em>Macalester</em>cough) are filled with leftists, but others are fairly conservative. For example, Claremont-McKenna has a conservative, businessy reputation. Among lesser-known, less selective schools, little Hope College in Michigan is a fine LAC that “provides a liberal arts education in the context of a Christian faith;” unlike Patrick Henry and Liberty, it accepts students of all religious beliefs, including non-believers.</p>
<p>And most schools with liberal reputations have a cadre of conservative students. Brown University has a well-deserved reputation for having many liberal
students, yet the uber-conservative Louisana Governor, Bobby Jindal, is a graduate. Evidently he managed to find like-minded students there during his undergraduate career.</p>
<p>It’s not the left slant…I just don’t think a LAC in general is the way to go…I’m thinking a larger university…more of the full college experience IMO</p>
<p>As to whether a small LAC or a bigger college would suit your son, it might be early to be making that choice. He’s only a freshman, right? I had thought a medium-sized college (say, 5000-6000 students) would be good for my son, but when he started visiting he determined that he wanted a small LAC, much smaller than I would have suggested.</p>
<p>“Wow. Geeps, why on earth do you keep posting?”</p>
<p>I know this might be hard for you to understand, but I when I answer a question multiple times to the point where just a small few don’t understand…then I really don’t feel the need to continue. Maybe the problem is you.</p>
<p>That said, Fang makes a valid point about not ruling out all LACs as a group. It may pay to just roll up your sleeves and start reading (assuming you haven’t already done this) the college guide books cover to cover. The Princeton Review books provide bunches of “Top 20” lists, including conservative and liberal. You have the time still. Web searches might help too.</p>
<p>Back to what Fang and 3togo are looking for. I think they want specific examples of liberal issues. But I agree with you. If they don’t get it by now, they won’t.</p>
<p>My daughter came home from high school the other day with a great example. Her teacher was trying to describe an concept by using an example. The concept he was trying to communicate was the idea that something, or someone, could be so totally off the wall crazy that nobody in their right mind would ever think of it/him/her as being in the realm of rational behavior. He pondered for a moment, searching for the example he needed, and then light dawned, “Of Course! George Bush! (V8 moment) Nobody in their right mind thinks that guy is sane!” The kids in the class nod knowingly. “Oh, we get it now.”</p>
<p>Inappropriate: professors talking about Liberalism as if everyone in class was a believer, treating all of Al Gore’s positions on global warming as if they were worthy of serious scientific notice, requiring a politically liberal or atheistic point of view in class assignments, urging students to vote in a liberal way, giving bad grades to students who have “conservative” political or religious beliefs, denigrating conservative religious beliefs.</p>
<p>This web site takes puts Princeton Review’s “Colleges Most Nostalgic for Ronald Reagan” and “Colleges Most Nostalgic for Bill Clinton” on a clickable Google-type map:</p>
<p>Also, the guide books often use terms like “traditional” or “middle of the road” to describe schools that might be of interest to your son. I’m thinking schools like Clemson, Vanderbilt, Rice. </p>
<p>I say “might” because I’m not expert on those particular schools, but my point is to key on those terms.</p>
<p>Winchester, thanks for giving an actual example of what you find objectionable. Even though I think George W. Bush was a disaster in every possible way, I agree that your daughter’s teacher was out of line. In more general terms, teachers and professors should not speak as if their political and religious beliefs are shared by everyone in their classroom. I hate it when people do that about beliefs I don’t share; if I were your daughter and a Bush supporter, I’d be sizzling mad.</p>
<p>It’s a mistake to think that everyone has the same understanding about what constitutes a liberal (or a conservative) agenda, though. I was recently having a discussion with a friend about what kind of college would be too religious for our children. Neither her daughter nor my son is religious, so a school that required a Statement of Faith would clearly be right out for either kid. But her daughter said that a school would be too religious if it even had a breadth requirement that a kid take a Religious Studies class (not a Bible Study class or some other class assuming a particular religious faith, but a class about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or some other subject normally studied in Religious Studies classes). I, on the other hand, think my atheist son would enjoy a religion class, so I don’t think a school with that requirement would be inappropriate at all for him. So “too liberal,” “too conservative,” “too religious:” these terms must be specifically defined.</p>
<p>Winchester, so then we agree, except the part about Al Gore. He’s not a scientist, so I would look to real scientists for science, but which of his pronouncements are not worthy of serious scientific examination? That is to say, nothing that he says ought to be worthy of scientific examination because he says it, but I believe that in fact, what he says mostly reflects the scientific consensus on the matter.</p>
<p>sorry to disappoint geeps but I’m not gonna take Fang’s bait about global warming. I do suspect the issue is overblown, but the truth of the matter is that I don’t know enough about it to argue intelligently. (Some may say that about all of my posts; be that as it may.) So on this topic I think it’s better that I “keep my mouth shut and let everyone think I’m an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.” I was simply groping for something technology-based to plug in to the quote I stole from Fang, as I did with the rest of it, and that’s the first thing that came to mind. </p>
<p>Fang, about your “sizzling mad” remark. Conservatives are used to that kind of thing from teachers, The New York Times, MSNBC, etc. etc. If we got sizzling mad every time we heard something like that the world would sound like Ruth’s Chris Steak House.</p>
<p>geeps20,
Sorry, you may have answered this already, but what does your child want to study? That should influence where he wants to go to school.</p>
<p>As for the liberal arts education, here are some interesting data:
“On a per capita basis, liberal arts colleges produce nearly twice as many students who earn a Ph.D. in science as other institutions. Liberal arts graduates also are disproportionately represented in the leadership of the nation’s scientific community. In a recent two-year period, nearly 20 percent of the scientists elected to the prestigious National Academy of Sciences received their undergraduate education at a liberal arts college. … [Liberal arts] colleges foster a broad based knowledge and understanding of the humanities, sciences, and the arts and the cultivation of critical thinking and examination, skills that lie at the heart of liberal learning. In doing so, the nation’s top liberal arts colleges uniquely prepare students for lives of service, achievement, leadership and personal fulfillment.” (from [The</a> Nation’s Top Liberal Arts Colleges -](<a href=“http://www.collegenews.org/topliberalartscolleges.xml]The”>http://www.collegenews.org/topliberalartscolleges.xml)) These preparations appeal to conservatives as well as liberals, from my experience.</p>
<p>“Ideas are fine, great minds even better. But ideas–without the discipline of values—can be not only misguided but dangerous. Great minds—unencumbered by a feeling for humanity—so often seem uselessly brilliant—and ultimately irrelevant,” according to Timothy J. Sullivan, President Emeritus at the College of William and Mary in Virginia, during at Centre College’s Founders Day observance on held on. Jan. 17, 2007. ([Liberal</a> Learning–Does It Still Matter? - Centre College](<a href=“http://www.collegenews.org/x6550.xml]Liberal”>http://www.collegenews.org/x6550.xml)) Again, I think this holds true for conservatives and liberals alike.</p>