<p>The problem was the almost immediate association of the converse of the OP’s scenario with a gay applicant considering missionary/conservative (=homophobic, all of them, really?) schools. Unfortunately, geek_mom brought this up in post 14, arguing that the absence of that is proof of liberal hypocrisy (clearly not the case).</p>
<p>So why retort curtly when the answer is so easily pointed out, and in fact in line with what you’ve been arguing?</p>
<p>I agree with JHS, post #91:
“There is no ‘simply presenting the material’ without some degree of politics.”
Maybe in a pure science or math class, but for most of the classes at an LAC you simply cannot ignore the political background or implications of the subject. I actually think everything is political, including business, which is what the OP’s son is interested in.</p>
<p>I don’t think the OP should worry too much about the professors forcing their liberal positions on students. I know this can happen, but it is not common, and would be the mark of a very poor teacher. I would be more concerned about the student body. I think her son would be most comfortable at a school with a large population of conservative students.</p>
<p>That said, I would urge the OP to consider schools without an overwhelming “liberal” or “conservative” culture. My worry would be that some LAC’s can have a student population that is overly uniform. My own political education came largely from my fellow students at a school with a very diverse student body, though generally “NE liberal.” My classmates were the children of: Latin American dictators, Brooklyn civil servants, Middle Eastern car mechanics, Japanese bankers, Connecticut CEO’s, Indian engineers, Haitian pharmacists, Long Island taxi cab drivers. The discussions and friendships opened my eyes in many ways and I am grateful that I was exposed to the world outside my southern upper middle class background. </p>
<p>I think OP’s son might be surprised to learn how narrow the range of political views is here in the U.S. Our “liberals” would be considered very conservative in most of Europe. Many foreigners don’t consider our two parties to be different at all. The range of debate is much wider in other parts of the world.</p>
<p>I think college is a great time to be exposed to ideas beyond your comfort zone. The OP’s son shouldn’t be the lone conservative on campus, but I think he should consider schools with a diverse population.</p>
<p>Donna; all I can say is you validated my prior post exactly. And no one has to agree; and I’m sure many won’t; but I have found; generally speaking; “Conservatives” to be a lot more tolerant, cooperative, and respectful of “Liberals” and their opinions than “Liberals” are of “Conservatives”.</p>
<p>Gadad—this is one of the best rationales I have seen for the value of a liberal arts, or any, education. </p>
<p>One’s personal value system is always healthier if its been tested. I was quite liberal, and even “radical” in college, but now, 30 years hence, my views have moderated considerably. I learned a lot about how to build perspective and to tolerate and understand other views of the world by bumping up against students and teachers who disagreed with my assumptions at the time. </p>
<p>The political feel of a campus should be a factor for a student, but not the deciding factor.</p>
<p>“but I have found; generally speaking; “Conservatives” to be a lot more tolerant, cooperative, and respectful of “Liberals” and their opinions than “Liberals” are of “Conservatives”.”</p>
<p>I tend to agree…while many liberals I’m sure would find that statement shocking. </p>
<p>I find it ironic that since most LACs are predominately liberal, then liberal parents send there kids to liberal schools…yet these some parents respond here that I shouldn’t worry about sending my conservative son to a LAC because he should hear “different points of view” or “If all he wants from college is to validate his current opinions, he’s missing the whole point” or “Is he going to college to have his belief system confirmed or is he going to learn?” Lots of hypocrisy there…IMO</p>
<p>Hey, just because I’m a liberal (I went to Wesleyan) doesn’t mean I can’t listen to Pat Robertson. His shows are extremely well-produced, entertaining – and thoroughly biased. I know it, Robertson knows it, everyone knows it. I guess I would feel differently if that were ALL the news and political commentary available, but, it isn’t. And, the same is true at even the most liberal LACs.</p>
<p>If you spend enough face time with a professor (presumably one of the things you are paying for at a LAC) of course, you will figure out where they stand politically; ambient remarks will be made. Big deal. It’s not like high school where teachers are considered public employees and children are considered just that – children. Welcome to college, where people are expected to treat each other as adults. </p>
<p>You want to recycle the same conservative ideas over and over again for every paper you write? Go right ahead. Just make d**ned sure they’re at least well-written and researched (and doesn’t violate the Honor Code – which they might, if they’re really the same paper written over and over again.)</p>
<p>Most of the Wesleyan students I knew (and, I lived in WestCo, the subject of that NYTimes article, Marite) managed to combine liberal political beliefs with conservative personal habits like hard work, thrift, even religious piety to some degree. </p>
<p>There are are “in-your-face” conservatives, too. For the most part they are not socially ostracized. Charm and wit are appreciated at Wesleyan just as they are anywhere else. I think conservatives, like the ubiquitous Mytheos, enjoy the repartee which, so far as I can tell, takes place mostly online, anyway. I’d say, Wesleyan is an excellent place to keep your debate skills up, if that’s what your life revolves around.</p>
<p>Geekmom, you took my post! I agree with you. Most of the LACs and many of the universities are very much bastions of liberalism. At one time, it served the purpose of disrupting the info flow as these kids were accustomed to hearing it from their more conservative homes. Such is not the case as much any more, especially the kids of those parents who now embrace the liberalism they learned at such colleges. But you would be surprised at how many folks there are in this country who are conservatives. </p>
<p>If your child wants a bit more of a centrist view, I recommend the Catholic colleges, the state schools, the southern schools, and look at the Princeton Review’s characterization of schools as most conservative and liberal. </p>
<p>I’d like to see the kids of liberals being referred to Liberty, Patrick Henry, Grove City, Franciscan, Thomas Aquinas, etc. It would be a true education in their way of looking at things and thought.Liberals are so quick to say that others should learn their side of the story, but doing it themselves with their kids is a whold different story.</p>
<p>In my sophomore year in college, I took a poli sci class in which I argued that democracies do not always lead to liberal outcomes (that was several decades before Fareed Zakaria coined the term “illiberal democracies”). The good thing about that classroom experience is that, being a foreigner, I was used to being made to feel uncomfortable all the time. I certainly earned my share of raised eyebrows and dropped jaws! I knew I was the one who had to adjust to different ways of doing things and thinking. Even my handling of forks and knives was subjected to scrutiny by others (the French do it differently than Americans); it could be unnerving. Definitely, having others challenge one’s way of thinking and doing is beneficial. But it need not be relentless.
My S, who can be very square personally though very tolerant, was absolutely comfortable at Wes. But I do not think that someone with strong conservative views but not keen on always having to defend his or her views or ignore other people’s behavior would be very comfortable. As I said, there are plenty of colleges to the left of Hillsdale and to the right of Wes. Why go to either extreme?</p>
<p>“But you would be surprised at how many folks there are in this country who are conservatives.”</p>
<p>Many Obamarites don’t realize that 60 million Americans DID NOT vote for the guy.</p>
<p>I’d like to gently point out that there are, in fact, gay and lesbian Christian missionaries. As well as pastors. D1 is participating in the homosexual wedding of our former student pastor who has now been ordained.</p>
<p>I think there’s a distinction, to some extent, between people with a “conservative” political philosophy, and people whose social conservatism is grounded in some version of literalist religious faith. There are plenty of the former in LACs up and down the East Coast, and up and down the prestige ladder, both on faculty (although perhaps seldom the English department) and in the student body. There are very few of the latter, and they tend to feel embattled, often rightly so. The prevailing notion of intellect at the vast majority of the universities of the world – certainly not just the U.S. – is profoundly incompatible with fundamentalist, literalist religion. (I want to make clear that my use of that term does not include the Catholic Church, or the vast majority of Orthodox Jews.) If you can’t handle being around people who do not take for granted the literal truth of the Bible and its divine origin, and who do not accept as valid arguments premised on either, then you really don’t belong in most U.S. colleges or universities.</p>
<p>“then you really don’t belong in most U.S. colleges or universities.”</p>
<p>what???..that makes no sense.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t that depend on your major? Why would that even be a factor in say a business or engineer major?</p>
<p>Why did you exclude Cathiolics?</p>
<p>I exclude Catholics because in general the Catholic Church is neither literalist nor fundamentalist, and Catholicism has a long tradition – with some oscillations, to be sure – of incorporating rationalism into its theology and of tolerating a wide range of dissent, especially within its universities.</p>
<p>As for your other question, I guess I probably swung too wide. Sure, an engineering program without any significant humanities component might not be a problem. I don’t tend to think of college education that way.</p>
<p>
Your postings seem to be most concerned about Politcal virew being imbosed during classes … to me this seems like a relatively minor issue. I think the bigger question of fit would be how homogenious (liberal) is the student population and how much does the administration run the school with a liberal bent. What is the school’s policy on birth control (what counseling and services are allowed or even promoted on campus)? What are the school’s policies on gay/lesbian/transgender issues (and what are the housing policies)? What are the schools free speech and harrasment policies?</p>
<p>I guess a prof could go off in class but I’ve never experienced that. But some schools will room your child with a gay classmate, send them to a coed bathroom down the hall which has a free condom dispensor in it. Everyone will visit this bathroom on the way to the lecture with the PLO rep speaking … etc. To me the campus culture is the big concern for students pretty far on one end of the spectrum (either end of the specturm as long as it is opposite the school) … so yes being a fundamentalist christian at many “liberal” LACs might be tough … just as being a hard core liberal at Bob Jones University is a slight mismatch.</p>
<p>I have a friend with kids who went to Liberty U which is a Christian school in Va. As VA residents, they had some great in state, inexpensive choices. Their kids were all good students, one was a top student. But they chose a Christian environment for their kids and have no regrets at all. The kids loved their experiences, they have lifelong friends from college, great memories, learned a lot and have great jobs. The alternatives are out there. </p>
<p>I know a number of people who went to Grove City College in PA who loved their time there. They got great educations, want to send their kids there, went on to grad and prof school and are in careers elbow to elbow with ivy leaguers. Nothing wrong with going to a conservative school. There is also quite a bit in between the true Christian colleges and the very liberal schools.</p>
<p>geeps20</p>
<p>I gotta hand it to ya. You’ve been remarkably fair and even-handed throughout this discussion in the face of some highly inflammatory material from both sides.</p>
<p>My politically moderate son went to a liberal LAC and came back four years later more conservative that when he left, partly as a reaction to ultra liberalism. He only wishes he could have had more respectful debates with his liberal classmates; he did not feel comfortable being honest in his views that differed from theirs. It was discouraging to him how close minded the students were, but that argument can be made about conservatives as well. Since he studied science and the classics he did not have to deal with much politics in the classroom. I was naive in thinking that college was a place that
encouraged open and respectful dialog with people of opposing viewpoints. Sadly that is not always the case.</p>
<p>“Sure, an engineering program without any significant humanities component might not be a problem. I don’t tend to think of college education that way.”</p>
<p>IMO, kids are there to learn in their classes, the professors views should not enter the equation. Their “growth” mainly comes from the differing student body and being away from home.</p>
<p>“I was naive in thinking that college was a place that
encouraged open and respectful dialog with people of opposing viewpoints. Sadly that is not always the case.”</p>
<p>This is basically why I began this thread. By the many responses here, I think I now know the answer…as disappointing as it is.</p>
<p>Well, I’d like to try to give a more practical answer to the OP’s question. In my opinion, your S would probably find that most of the profs at a NE LAC would be liberal, and that this would come through in many classes. However, I think that this will probably not be a problem for him in terms of his grades and classroom work most of the time. I think situations in which a prof would downgrade a student based on viewpoint are rare, and certainly no more common than other unfair grading scenarios that can happen anywhere.
But I do think there is a broader question of comfort and fit, and it really depends on what KIND of conservative your son is. If he’s essentially a traditional Republican who believes in small government, low taxes, strong military, etc., he will find plenty of people who disagree with him, but probably not constant conflict. It’s a different story, though, if he’s very conservative on a lot of social issues: if, for example, he’s strongly anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-affirmative action, etc. In this case, he may find that he has a lot of conflict with other students, and it may not be worth it. If this is the case, he can get the best of both worlds by attending a large state university, where there will still be intellectual challenge, but a student body that encompasses more variety of views.</p>