<p>S went to a university but his program was actually quite small (took in only 55 students each year) so he experienced large GE classes and smaller classes in his major. D went to an LAC that was part of a consortium so there was the feel of a small school (smaller than her HS) as well as of a small university (~5,000 or so students). There are advantages as well as disadvantages to both. And at least one student we knew at a university stated that students lived in a bubble there, rarely going off campus. What’s most important is finding the right fit for each student.</p>
<p>For children of college professors: ;)</p>
<p>[Where</a> Professors Send Their Children to College - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244508/where-professors-send-their-children-to-college/]Where”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244508/where-professors-send-their-children-to-college/)</p>
<p>The article asks: “Why Aren’t Liberal Arts Colleges More Popular?”</p>
<p>It also contains the answer: “Why are college professors steering their children to liberal arts colleges, which educate roughly 3% of the nation’s college students?” There’s room for only 3% of high school students, and the LACs are already full, i.e., fully popular. :)</p>
<p>Re: [Where</a> Professors Send Their Children to College - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244508/where-professors-send-their-children-to-college/]Where”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244508/where-professors-send-their-children-to-college/)</p>
<p>The actual paper is here: <a href=“http://www.accessecon.com/pubs/VUECON/vu03-w02.pdf[/url]”>http://www.accessecon.com/pubs/VUECON/vu03-w02.pdf</a></p>
<p>Table 2 on page 9 compares faculty with staff. Considering the educational levels of faculty versus staff, it is not surprising that faculty kids are more likely to go to “research extensive” universities or LACs than staff kids.</p>
<p>Table 3 on page 12 compares faculty at research universities and LACs. The kids of research university faculty went to “research extensive” universities 50.6% of the time and LACs 23.0% of the time; the corresponding percentages for kids of LAC faculty were 31.7% and 43.7%.</p>
<p>For comparison (table 4 on page 14, table 5 on page 15), the percentages for kids of other parents making $100,000 or more income per year were 42.2% and 14.0%. The percentages for kids of parents with PhDs and other doctoral degrees (but not faculty) were 42.4% and 10.1% (table 6 on page 18, table 7 on page 19).</p>
<p>So while faculty kids do tend to favor LACs more than the general high income and high education population do, it is not a huge difference for kids of faculty at research universities, while kids of faculty at LACs do favor LACs much more strongly.</p>
<p>I think the results may also have been affected by the choice of schools included. Clark U, for example, is one of the universities. Clark is a research university, but it certainly isn’t a typical one. It’s much smaller than most. It has far fewer graduate than undergraduate students and it doesn’t have a law, business, or medical school. It’s actually included in “Colleges that Change Lives.” I can understand that someone who likes teaching at Clark would feel more comfortable sending his/her kid to a LAC than to a large research university. </p>
<p>Would you get the same results if the universities included UCal-Berkeley or UTexas-Austin or UMichigan-AA or NYU? </p>
<p>I know this is just anecdotal, but among the group of those about age 30 now that I know, more of the LAC students transferred and/or were unhappy with their choices than those who chose elite universities. A fair number of students seem to have been happy for the first couple of years, but then felt they outgrew their colleges. The lack of good career advice and on campus job interviews is a common complaint. I assume that there are LACs that excel in these areas, but I think that, in the aggregate, elite LACs do a worse job in that area than universities do. And, maybe it’s un-PC to say so, but as females become juniors and seniors, the # of guys available to date dwindles. At a university, potential romantic interests include med, law, business, and graduate students. </p>
<p>Personally, I favor smaller universities where undergrads are important–schools like Clark, UChicago, Dartmouth, Brown, Princeton, etc.–though there are some in this group I dislike for other reasons. I do think though that they offer the best of both worlds.</p>
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<p>By “outgrew” do you mean they found a shortage or infrequent offering of upper division courses, or they wanted to take graduate level courses and found none?</p>
<p>In terms of on-campus interviews, LACs may be less attractive to employers because they are smaller – from an employer’s point of view, why spend a trip to visit a school with 500 graduating seniors, when you can visit a school with 5,000 graduating seniors? (however, you may be competing with more other employers at the big school)</p>
<p>That may also have something to do with high PhD production from some LACs.</p>
<p>Of course, some LACs with connections to nearby research universities reduce these disadvantages. Barnard cross registration with Columbia provides access to Columbia’s course catalog. The University of Massachusetts - Amherst allows students at four nearby LACs to cross register for courses and use its career center.</p>
<p>Note that LACs are also considered to be grad school prep colleges, and largely don’t offer majors where a BA/BS is a terminal degree for getting a job. The Big U and the LAC are catering to somewhat different applicants.</p>
<p>As the mother of a soon-to-be LAC graduate, I can assure you that D was not spoon-fed. But to a degree, her education has been tailored; perhaps that’s what you mean. Her profs know her very well, so when she is struggling with something, she is far more likely to get individualized help than she would be at a U. But more typically, her profs also know when something is too easy for her, and they don’t hesitate to make it more challenging.</p>
<p>There are a number of very good, private small universities on that list of Masters Universities. There are more than several,that are discussed frequently on this forum…my DD’s alma mater, Santa Clara is one. Trinity in San Antonio. </p>
<p>They are NOT all lower ranked directional public universities.</p>
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<p>I think you would get the same results. I’m on the faculty of a major research university, a Midwestern public flagship. Just a quick survey of the faculty roster in my own department shows just under a third of my colleagues got their own bachelor’s degrees from LACs, another third from public universities (mostly state flagships), and slightly over a third from private research universities (predominantly Ivies but a smattering of others as well). Oh, and a smattering from foreign universities. Maybe that adds up to more than 100%, but of those earning their first degrees in the U.S., it’s roughly equally divided between LACs, public universities, and private research universities. Since LACs educate something like 3% of the nation’s undergrads, that means LACs (and Ivies) are heavily overrepresented among my faculty colleagues.</p>
<p>Since surveys show LAC alums tend to be more satisfied with their undergraduate experience (77% rating it “excellent”) than alums of private research universities (59% “excellent”) or the top 50 public universities (56% “excellent”),* it only stands to reason that the numerous faculty members who attended LACs themselves will in most cases be favorably disposed toward sending their own kids to LACs. And not only them. I got my BA from a top public flagship (Michigan) and I’d rate my experience there “excellent,” but both of my daughters are attending LACs. And many of my colleagues and acquaintances in academia both here and around the country who were themselves products of public or private research universities at the undergrad level have sent, are sending, or are planning to send their kids to LACs as well. My D1 estimates that about half the students she knows at her LAC (Haverford) have one or more parents in academia, at a mix of public and private research universities and LACs.</p>
<p>I have no reason to believe it would be any different at UC Berkeley, Michigan, or Texas.</p>
<p>As for the idea that many students “outgrow” their LACs, I’ve heard many LAC alums say that by their senior year they definitely were ready to leave and felt as if the place had grown too small for them. But I felt exactly that way about the University of Michigan. I don’t think it has much to do with the size or characteristics if the institution, four years of undergraduate education is enough for most people (though I suppose I do know a few who stretched it out a little longer).</p>
<ul>
<li>See [Annapolis</a> Group survey finds high satisfaction among liberal arts college graduates | Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/11/16/annapolis-group-survey-finds-high-satisfaction-among-liberal-arts-college-graduates]Annapolis”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/11/16/annapolis-group-survey-finds-high-satisfaction-among-liberal-arts-college-graduates)</li>
</ul>
<p>“just under a third of my colleagues got their own bachelor’s degrees from LACs”</p>
<p>This seems huge, considering that LACs have room for only 3% of USA college students.</p>
<p>At my H’s department at UC Berkeley, it’s pretty evenly divided between research unis (Harvard, NYU & Penn) and LACs. There is also a cohort whose kids went to community colleges. Not every academic raises an academically focused kid.</p>
<p>You’d think if lots of kids were “outgrowing” their LAC, the transfer rates would be pretty high, but judging by the graduation rates, that’s not the case.</p>
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<p>But note that most college students do not go to a research university with high research activity (flagship-level public or high research activity private PhD-granting school) or a LAC. Those going to community college for an associates degree or certificate are numerous, as are those pursuing bachelor’s degrees (mainly in pre-professional majors like business) at local non-flagship state universities or non-PhD-granting private universities. Eliminate those students (for whom attending a LAC would not match their intended academic goals in the first place), and the LAC share of remaining students becomes significantly larger than 3%.</p>
<p>My children’s friends who felt they had “outgrown” their LACs before they graduated – and there were a number of these – were not talking about the academic offerings so much as the social setting. Most of them had chosen at 17 or 18 to go to a relatively isolated college in a rural or suburban setting, with a well-defined campus and a small, intimate community, but by 21 they felt ready for cities, crowds, and more stuff to do at night than just to drink and shoot the bull. Generally, this feeling didn’t get that strong until they were seniors, anyway, so transferring wasn’t really on the table. Part of what staved that off until senior year – but which also accelerated it then – was the fact that almost 100% of the LAC kids did at least a semester somewhere overseas in their sophomore or junior years.</p>
<p>I don’t think that wanting to be done with school and get on with “real life” is limited to seniors at LACs. Certainly true for kids I’ve known who have graduated from UC Berkeley and are eager to experience something other than the college hangouts on Telegraph Avenue.</p>
<p>Q. Do major employers hire directly from LACs?</p>
<p>I know that consulting firms (McKinsey, for example), like to recruit kids directly from top universities, organize job fair, etc. Anything similar at LACs?</p>
<p>McKinsey says:
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<p>But are there many business analyst candidates at LACs? There won’t be many business majors, but some with a keen interest in business?</p>
<p>The management consulting firms do not necessarily recruit candidates who are business majors or who have “a keen interest in business.” I think they look for people who are really smart, very analytical, good communicators, good at teamwork, and have leadership qualities. Those people show up at LACs as well as at universities.</p>
<p>My younger kid has two close friends working for a brand-name, white shoe management consulting firm (albeit not McKinsey). Neither went to an LAC, but neither had the least interest in business before they started work. One was editor-in-chief of his college newspaper, the other was a history major with a minor in painting who won a prestigious prize for his senior thesis.</p>
<p>I have a friend who was a McKinsey partner for 20 years, and who went to Wesleyan. But he didn’t start working at McKinsey until he was at Harvard Business School.</p>
<p>Just for fun, I checked the Williams career services web page. They have interview dates set up for several highly reputable consulting firms, but not McKinsey. Swarthmore doesn’t give names, but says, “The majority of graduating seniors enter business careers, including consulting, investment banking, financial services, marketing and management.” It also says that, long-term, 20% of its alumni have business careers, of whom 20% are primarily in consulting and 17% are primarily in finance.</p>
<p>McKinsey says:
[Bachelor’s</a> degree frequently asked questions | Careers | McKinsey & Company](<a href=“http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/apply/university_recruiting/us_ba_faqs]Bachelor’s”>http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/apply/university_recruiting/us_ba_faqs)</p>
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<p>Haverford College and Bryn Mawr College run a joint career development program. Here’s a list of businesses and other organizations that “have participated in the recruiting program at Bryn Mawr and Haverford Colleges.” Note it doesn’t say all these recruiters have actually made hires, but if they take the time to recruit there, it means they’re looking and well-qualified candidates from these schools are at least in the running. </p>
<p>[Bi-College</a> Career Development Office](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/cdo/employer/recruiting/organizations.html]Bi-College”>http://www.haverford.edu/cdo/employer/recruiting/organizations.html)</p>
<p>Seems to me that list includes a good mix of private sector, non-profit, and government employers, including some investment banks (e.g., Goldman Sachs, also Cantor Fitzgerald whose chairman and CEO Howard Lutnik is a Haverford alum), hedge funds (e.g…, J.P. Morgan Asset Management), and management consulting firms (e.g., McKinsey). Scuttlebutt from my DD, a rising Haverford senior, is that because Haverford’s economics department is top-notch and heavily quantitative, econ majors do particularly well with those sorts of employers (Howard Lutnik at Cantor Fitzgerald who was an econ major at Haverford being Exhibit A), but other quant types can do quite well also.</p>
<p>Haverford and Bryn Mawr are also members of an outfit called the Selective Liberal Arts Consortium (SLAC), and additional employers recruit Haverford and Bryn Mawr students through SLAC. List is here:</p>
<p>[Bi-College</a> Career Development Office](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/cdo/services/recruiting/slac_organizations.htm]Bi-College”>http://www.haverford.edu/cdo/services/recruiting/slac_organizations.htm)</p>
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<p>[Swarthmore</a> Graduate Outcomes :: Career Services :: Swarthmore College](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/student-life/career-services/for-families-and-prospective-students/swarthmore-graduate-outcomes.xml]Swarthmore”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/student-life/career-services/for-families-and-prospective-students/swarthmore-graduate-outcomes.xml)</p>
<p>Wow, I hadn’t thought of Swarthmore as a business school before this!</p>