Landlords-charging tenant for damages

<p>

The landlord might have been able to get a higher rent if the carpets were in good shape. </p>

<p>In any case, “value” isn’t only driven by rents. If they sold the house tomorrow, how much less would they get because some of the carpet is trashed?</p>

<p>I personally do not place that much importance on aesthetics in my rentals, because I don’t live there. Tenants don’t seem to care all that much either, because they don’t own the place.</p>

<p>So I would just replace the smallest area I could reasonably get away with, and I wouldn’t really care if they match 100% or if the tenant can see four kinds of flooring at once. And most likely the tenant won’t care either. After a couple weeks, you stop noticing this stuff.</p>

<p>Do it in a contrasting color, then you don’t have to care about the pattern.</p>

<p>If you do replace all the carpeting, when you go to sell in 5 years you will probably have to replace it all again anyway, so why do more now than you have to.</p>

<p>As for rent withholding, this is a tricky area and is completely dependent your state’s laws. In my state, you can only withhold rent for defects that make the apartment unfit for habitation, such as a broken heater. And there are strict rules about how it is done.</p>

<p>A railing would most likely not qualify.</p>

<p>In Washington you could withhold rent, but in N C, not so much.
[Tenant</a> Rights to Withhold Rent by State - Nolo.com](<a href=“http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tenant-rights-withhold-rent-state]Tenant”>Tenant Rights to Withhold Rent by State | Nolo)</p>

<p>Clearly, the source Emk4 shows in Washington State there are conditions where a tenant could withhold rent for needed REPAIRS after certain time limits and not so in N.C.</p>

<p>Good or bad, but Washington’s laws would not apply to circumstance here. Here, a tenant desires upgrades(NOT repairs) that are not required by codes, to a unit because she is (presumably)temporarily on crutches for a broken ankle.</p>

<p>Withholding rents can be a legal way to force a LL to do required repairs. This railing being discussed is neither required nor a repair. Or worded another way, a LL has to fulfill his obligations. This upgrade to railing for the student is not an obligation. Fortunately, the tenant’s family and LL have struck a compromise for a railing as a courtesy to the student.</p>

<p>Much like notrichenough, upgrading railings on existing units are also not required in my state unless there is construction in a related area and in a related way. In a case like that, upgrade is req’d. In fact, in my state, if a LL put up a railing as a courtesy it would likely have to meet current code. Given that, a LL here is better off not doing the courtesy at all. That would be an example that ADA rules would work against someone disabled.</p>

<p>On a side note, something I found interesting about suggestions here for the student with a broken ankle:
Some suggested seeking help from the federal government, leaning on the A.D.A., even though the ADA does not seem to apply.
Others suggested PT so the student could learn to navigate better on her own.</p>

<p>Not having handrail is against code in Wa.
You may not be able to force a landlord to install one, I agree, but if someone is injures the landlord would be liable.</p>

<p>I’m still waiting for the release of liability and the bill for materials that the LL promised to send me yesterday. I’m going to call him today - part of the reason this has dragged on for a month is that his building manager was previously sending communications to us at a misspelled email address.</p>

<p>I never cared about the stairs meeting a specific code - I just wanted it to be safe. I wanted something sturdy that D could hold onto for balance when she’s finally allowed to put some weight on her leg. You need to understand that these stairs are unusually steep - the first 3 steps are normal, but the last step to the porch is about 2 inches taller than normal. They’re steep and irregular and MANY people have referred to them as “scary” in the year that D has lived there. (D warned me about them when she first rented the unit, but she assured me she’d be careful. When H and I finally saw them we shook our heads and said, “This landlord is nuts for not putting up a railing - this is a lawsuit waiting to happen.”) </p>

<p>After I first contacted the LL about D’s injury and my safety concerns and found out he had no intention of putting up a railing unless we paid the entire cost (and again, this lack of railing was a defect that MANY people had marveled at, and seemed to be something long past due for the owner’s own liability concerns) I called my SIL who is an attorney in another state and who works with municipalities to find out what my options were. She told me to call the building inspector to find out what the law actually is, because it was possible the building was grandfathered. She also told me not to withhold the rent because then D would be in default on the lease. But when I called the NC building inspector to find out the laws, they told me the best thing to do was to file a complaint, because then they could go and look at the actual unit and tell me exactly whether or not it meets code and what it would require to fix it. It was only when they called me back to tell me the stairs were indeed in violation that I learned they had no ability to enforce the code. (I still don’t understand why a state would go thru the trouble to write codes and hire people to inspect for them, but not bother to have a mechanism for enforcement. Here in MA, the LL would be facing increasing fines until the safety violation was resolved.) Meanwhile, the inspector had notified the landlord that he was in violation and it was in his best interest to put up the railing, which is the extent of what he could do. So the landlord got estimates from licensed contractors to put up a railing that would meet building code, which were well over $1000. He then called me to tell me he had no legal obligation to meet the code, but he would put up something temporary and less expensive IF we waived liability and paid for half. So we agreed. </p>

<p>The compromise we have reached will satisfy me - IF the LL follows through on it, AND if the railing is sturdy - a rickety railing is more dangerous than none at all, if D depends on it for balance. (That was another reason the building code was appealing, it specified how sturdy a railing should be). In the end, the temporary railing will come down and the scary stairs will still be waiting for the next tenant. I don’t know how the LL thinks this is the best solution for him, but that’s not my problem I guess.</p>

<p>For those of you advocating PT, D will be going to PT when her cast is off. This is not her first time on crutches so she knows how to maneuver stairs. My bigger concern is when she is finally allowed to put weight on the leg and is unbalanced with a heavy/awkward walking boot, or is walking normally on a leg that has been weakened by weeks/months of no weight bearing. That is when I think she’ll really need a railing to hold on to, to help her keep her balance. I had a walking boot last year when I had an ankle injury and I REALLY relied on stair railings when going down the stairs, because it’s heavy and you can’t bend your ankle at all, which throws your balance off.</p>

<p>We now return you to your regularly scheduled carpet replacement discussion. :)</p>

<p>I’m not a Washington atty, emky4. but I seriously doubt, based on my experiences and other posts here, that every building- no matter when it was built- is now required to retrofit steps with proper railings to meet 2013 codes. Dietz explained it well in post 33. Does that same code require that all old wiring be replaced with today’s wire? And plugs near water required to be replaced with GFCIs? I am skeptical.
I suspect old buildings’ railings are grandfathered in to old codes, although I’m sure new construction and restorations must abide by today’s codes.</p>

<p>If I’m wrong, I would love for you to provide a link to the code that requires it on old buildings like is discussed here. I love to learn about building codes and landlord-tenant law, even if it is in another state. Then I will thank you for the info and apologize for disagreeing!</p>

<p>Here is an example of a city, Boston, that is getting serious about enforcing safety codes - regardless of how old a building is:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Inspections seems to be by city.
In Seattle it is a newish program and doesnt look like grandfathering will allow slumlords to evade code.
[Rental</a> Registration & Inspection Ordinance - Seattle Department of Planning and Development](<a href=“http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/codesrules/codes/rentalregistration/default.htm]Rental”>DPD Redirect)</p>

<p>Ah, ok then not Washington State.
I looked at the link you provided, but I did not see -even in Seattle- what the codes are. The like you provided defines a rental, and explains that inspectors will inspect rental to see that they are in compliance with codes. But that doesn’t address if current codes grandfather in old codes.
Did I overlook the part that applies, or did you maybe send the wrong link?</p>

<p>Code governing handrails
<a href=“http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/publications/cam/cam319.pdf[/url]”>An error has occurred - Seattle Department of Planning and Development;
<a href=“http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/publications/cam/cam303a.pdf[/url]”>An error has occurred - Seattle Department of Planning and Development;

<p>*UMBER OF HANDRAILS
Generally, all stairs and ramps for projects falling under the SBC are required to have handrails on both sides. *</p>

<p>An excellent link!
It appears the rules for rentals in the city of Seattle Washington would in fact apply to the case we are discussing here, as there was no mention of grandfathering.
Thank you emk4 for helping me to learn about building codes in the city of Seattle.</p>

<p>It’s still not clear if the rules apply. The links are to documents issued by the Department of Planning and Development and specifically address what needs to be part of submitted plans. One link is to a 2007 document and the other to a 2011 update. </p>

<p>One only submits plans for new development or substantial renovation - requiring the submission and approval of renovation plans. I would not make the assumption that since the documents do not specifically say ‘unless grandfathered’ that the grandfathering clause is not applicable.</p>

<p>Again, if grandfathering does not apply to old building codes…then a business can easily be bankrupted by any new regulation which would require it to come up to today’s code standard. </p>

<p>An insurance company on the other hand may demand certain upgrades as a condition of continued coverage. In our case - one insurance company required the upgrade of an electrical panel from fuses to breakers - as a condition of continued coverage. But, as far as I know, not even the city of SF is demanding retrofit for all fuse panels - even though they are no longer code compliant.</p>

<p>We also had a property in a county which had mandatory rental unit inspections (won’t even get into the privacy issues that come this this particular hornets nest). Even in that situation, the county did not demand upgrades to current code. They did however demand removal of certain things (like interior window locks a tenant had installed) that posed hazards. However, these items were installed after building construction and in violation of existing codes at the time of installation.</p>

<p>I took a second look and you seem to be correct, Dietz. The link provided seemed to show handrail codes for new construction in Seattle. So I am uncertain if they would apply to the case here, since the case being discussed here isn’t a new building.
That is a very different than “Not having handrail is against code in Wa.”</p>

<p>And by the way, Emkty4, good, decent, well meaning landlords might not have a building up to every current code. The confusion over this particular handrail issue demonstrates a good example of that. A home lacking a handrail does not make a LL a slumlord. And a home grandfathered into an old code isn’t allowing “slumlords to evade code”. An item grandfathered in IS the code-permitting the grandfathering.</p>

<p>Just want to let you all know how this turned out.</p>

<p>I emailed the tenant the numbers showing I could charge them $1300+ but told them I did not feel good about that, mentioned I was sure they had been thinking about the issue and wondered how they thought we should approach it.</p>

<p>They came back with an email saying no charge at all and gave me a list of a dozen things they felt they had paid for over the years. I reviewed the list, addressed each point and agreed with a couple of points.</p>

<p>They contended that there were cheaper vendors so I got quotes from their vendor and they mentioned repairs they had made over the years, things for which I would have reimbursed them the money they spent on supplies had they asked. I asked if they had receipts, but they did not answer that.</p>

<p>I came back to them with a point by point addressing of each item they raised, ran the numbers for each possible scenario from one room to two or only a patch and ran it at the prices from both vendors. I pointed out that the fee for replacing two rooms at their vendor rate less credit for items they purchased to make repairs was still about 35% more than the cost of a patch.</p>

<p>I spoke to the current tenant and they are fine with me not replacing the carpet now, so I offered the prior tenant to only charge them the cost of a patch and they agreed to that.</p>

<p>Special thanks to my CC PM advisor, you know who you are!</p>

<p>Sounds like you reached a fair and reasonable compromise.
Well done.</p>

<p>We bought a townhouse two years ago. And rented it out. The tenant paid one month security deposit. Last month they didn’t pay the rent and they moved out last week. Today our carpet clean company told us the carpet was damaged (we don’t have any experience and thought it can be cleaned up). How can we charge the tenant the carpet replacement fee after they left?</p>

<p>The process varies based on where you are, but most likely you will have to send them a bill (perhaps signed under penalty of perjury), and when they don’t pay it you will have to sue them.</p>

<p>In a couple of years, after you win a judgement against them, then you will have to find some way to collect. It will be like squeezing blood from a rock.</p>

<p>Of course, you may not win. A lot will depend on whether the damage went beyond normal wear and tear, how well you can document the damage (do you have before/after pictures? A signed condition statement?), and on whether you correctly handled their security deposit to begin with. In my state the rules around security deposits are so hard to follow exactly that many landlords don’t collect it, because mishandling it can cost you triple the amount deposit if they counter-sue and win.</p>

<p>Next tenant, collect first and last months’ rent, and a security deposit, if allowed by the laws in your state.</p>

<p>How bad is the damage? Carpet is cheap, I would just replace what I needed and move on. Life is too short to spend years chasing down a few hundred $$.</p>

<p>I also wonder, did the tenants live there two years? Was the carpet new when they moved in? At what point does “normal wear and tear” become “damage”?</p>