Last Laugh???? Well hopefully

Parents Forum
301

I’ve called the top colleges (incl publics) “machines.” Or that, like a big ship, hard to turn in the water. But many of us also warn against assuming. This does tie into the path this thread has taken. You do the best you can, not limited to your glory in your own hs, pull the info you can, process that. And like everyone else, wait for actual notification. I told mine, after submitting, that it’s now in adcoms’ hands. I wanted them to be satisfied with what they submitted, since they cannot control more than that.

Thing is, most CC people are less interested in sweet colleges that take a huge % and offer a satisfying academic and social experience, but focus on reaches and that awful word, “Dreams.” I’ve yet to find a college that says, we want kuds who dream of us.

But CC is full of “dreams.”

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The Ivies finish reviewing in mid March. Some areas may be the 3rd week.

Blame it on the volume of apps and the late deadline to apply. Most folks don’t want to see more reviewers or adcoms added. Many admissions depts are streamlining. But you can’t really ask them to shut it all down, cut off a lot of kids without getting to their apps, so you can have an answer close to when some other tiers send notice.

Personally, I’d like to see a narrower app window. Eg, 11/15 to 12/15. But then you’d get a the cries about unfairness. Not to mention the claims it’s all about yield and USNews.

Lol.

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Ivies had 12/31 deadlines as did a lot of the more selective schools. Don’t know if that has changed. I don’t think it’s a time thing. I was told that the earlier acceptances do promote more acceptances do a lot of schools go for that edge. I know in the case of my kids and their friends, it worked. They loved being wanted and they wanted an end to the whole process. It would take a heavy hitting school to change their minds. That is, in part, why there is EA. My last kid was done after EA/ED. Time to move on was the way he felt.

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I’m more irritated by the schools that start accepting students ridiculously early and start housing lists before most schools have given admissions responses. My kid applied to a school where she was frozen out of the good housing options because she had not put down an admissions deposit and a nonrefundable housing deposit before some of her other applications were even due. It wasn’t a big deal for us because she could afford to get a nice off campus apartment but what about the kid for whom losing those deposits would be a hardship? How are they able to compare FA offers?

Another school gives class enrollment priority to kids who accept by an early date, again before the standard dates for more competitive colleges. One even allows kids who ED to move into their dorms a day ahead of everyone else. Ugh.

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@Sue22

Yeah that is annoying. That is the type of stress that is part of the system we as parents don’t have much control over.

While this thread has exploded one aspect that I have disagreed with is that the parents and the students contribute solely to the anxiety in the process. That is so not true. The schools definitely contribute to part of the stress as well.

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Kind of back to the OP. Yes, I know it’s not personal to get rejected or WL from a school. But it’s tough nonetheless, especially if it was a top choice for that kid. The adcoms made their decisions, for better or for worse, for our kids. I, for one, have been quite happy to see the number of schools that have gone to their waitlist this year. Perhaps they misjudged yield, and now can offer spots to students that were not initially accepted. My son’s friend just go off of a WL and is thrilled.

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@Sue22 Wow, those examples are really awful. I thought we were finished with this dumpster fire process when we sent the deposit in, but I guess at some school it lives on…

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“Dreams.” I’ve yet to find a college that says, we want kuds who dream of us."

I’m not sure why you put these strawman arguments up that can be knocked down so easily, most colleges want the kids to dream of them, of that college being the dream college, and I don’t think that’s such a bad thing. Many current students who are profiled (whom you claim are good sources of info) talk how this was their dream college.

From Columbia:

“We believe cost should not be a barrier to pursuing one’s educational dreams, and a Columbia education is possible for students from families of all sorts of socioeconomic backgrounds.”

From Dartmouth:

"and I realized that my childhood dream of attending an Ivy League school was still very much alive. "

Looks like a lot of colleges love talking about fulfilling dreams of their students. And this I actually believe (vs. holistic, ED offers no advantage etc). I do think kids that write about it being a dream and falling in love with the campus has some pull.

309

The schools do end up paying in that phantom students don’t show up. A lot of schools stuck with a housing mess, left holding just the deposit. That can cost them real students whose parents do not want to send a freshman to a. college that can’t guarantee him housing. That just about happened to us. I guess the deposits weren’t enough for people to worry about walking away from them. It did turn out that my student got a room but it was uncertain for too long.

310

“Not to mention the claims it’s all about yield and USNews.”

When I came on CC a couple years back, I really wanted to rail on US News for all the reasons others have already posted, but it’s not going anywhere, it’s now part of the environment. And colleges are influenced by it. I know factually that one college told some of its students that if they wanted to enroll, it had to be in the spring. One of the parents is a college professor who remarked to me that while they didn’t say it in the letter, it was to get the kid’s scores counted in the spring so as not to affect the ranking with lower scores. That’s a huge inconvenience that’s caused by only one thing - colleges bowing to the impact of US News.

311

The internet, Facebook, instant communications for sure have played a role in ratcheting up the stress level and I don’t think this gets adequately explored.

Back in the day, you got admitted with a letter (thick or thin was about the only variable). People mostly kept quiet about their rejections which was easy to do because parents weren’t posting pictures of their kids on Facebook posing in the Quad of whichever college in August saying “Aren’t college visits fun?”. I see these photos now- I just cringe for the kid. Your parents post pictures of you at U Michigan and Northwestern and Chicago and you have well meaning relatives ask “why not Michigan” when they find out you’re attending some other place, less famous, whether because of money or getting rejected.

Nobody posted on Facebook “Any suggestions of where to eat in Ithaca?” or “What’s the best way to get from Harvard Yard to MIT?” (like both answers aren’t easily obtained without violating your kids privacy). And nobody posted “suggestions for an SAT tutor?”

All of these things may seem silly to you, but I observe that they’ve ratcheted up the stress significantly. HS’s now assume that everyone talks about their “lists”- and so kids do. Parents discuss with their friends and co-workers; nothing is private, everything is out there.

I got rejected from a reach college back in the day; nobody was discussing it because nobody knew I had applied except for my guidance counselor and my parents. Nobody needed to strategize on how to best handle my rejection, because everyone knew that a reach meant you were likely to be rejected (and I think this reach had an acceptance rate of about 20% back then! Now it’s single digits). Nobody comforted me or bought me ice cream- you can’t hit the balls you don’t swing for, and that was that.

And guess what- it was fine. I mourned for five seconds and moved on. It had been my reach, and everyone knows you are likely not to get into your reach. But kids don’t believe that these days, and neither do their parents.

I think the amplification and the noise around college with SO much information online and instantly available has increased the stress levels everywhere. My GC said (with typical tact) “You aren’t getting in there” when he saw my list; but everyone who wanted to got a reach at my HS and that was mine. And truth be told- in an era where the non-college bound boys in my class with bad draft numbers had to choose between Viet Nam, Canada, conscientious objector, etc., nobody was shedding tears over a college rejection. I think we ALL felt that there were bigger problems in the world.

My neighbors with young kids share EVERYTHING- in real life and online. Would I have told someone that a kid was still wetting the bed at whatever age they shouldn’t have? No. That conversation took place with a pediatrician, period full stop. Why do people have to discuss this stuff endlessly, post endlessly, eliminate any boundaries that their kids might need?

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The TMI aspect of Social Media causes a lot of damage in a lot of aspects of life, not just college.

But prestige and colleges have been tied for a long while before the internet became so pervasive. Even back in my day, HPY had cachet. Getting to go away to school was also a big deal thing. Most of my high school classmates did not. Most got college locally and part time, over time, paying as they went , working along the way. Some did get stretches of fulltime college due to GI Bill or having the down time, but many could not afford to go to college fulltime. A lot of their children did, however.

Though the rankings and social media have caused a hierarchy that can be absurd, they’ve also brought some schools to the forefront that were not well known other than locally.

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“While this thread has exploded one aspect that I have disagreed with is that the parents and the students contribute solely to the anxiety in the process. That is so not true. The schools definitely contribute to part of the stress as well.”

If they do it’s because we allow it. On the whole I think the reason people are attracted to elite schools is because they want to feel elite. That’s something a marketing department can latch onto. It’s probably much easier than convincing a student that the school is best for them. It’s also self perpetuating. Get more applicants, you can show yourself as even more selective and by extension more elite.

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CPT- if colleges like Reed and Carlton now have reputations for excellence outside their own region then yes- bringing some schools to the forefront has been helpful via the internet. But many things have been lost. I read endlessly about how to legislate Facebook, what does Apple do with your private information, why does Google know everything about you- and yes, some of this should be handled at a policy level with a national discussion.

But why does every single one of your Facebook friends need to know that your kid is a semi-finalist for a Chancellor’s award somewhere, or that "Joey was accepted everywhere, we’re now just waiting for “Ivy Day”? Don’t people have SOME obligation to keep this stuff private, for their kids sake, and for their own anxiety level?

I think the stress would be halved if folks went back to discussing college admissions with their guidance counselors. Period full stop.

Do I need to know that my next door neighbor is financing freshman year of college with a HELOC? And that there’s no plan for sophomore year, since there isn’t enough equity in the house to cover all four years? Why would you discuss your finances with someone you are cordial with but don’t really know? I"m not Facebook friends with her so god only knows what’s posted there!

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@theloniusmonk. How do you so often draw these conclusions? " most colleges want the kids to dream of them, of that college being the dream college, and I don’t think that’s such a bad thing. Many current students who are profiled (whom you claim are good sources of info) talk how this was their dream college."

You do not get an admit because you rest your case on dreams. Just think about it. Current students are not involved in admissions decisions. That’s not authoritative. What I do say is to look at whom the colleges tout- and how- for an idea what the colleges value. The college doesn’t just present stats and “president if pep rally club in hs.” Or “held a fundraiser.” Or dreams. They present the rounding, often including direct ongoing comm service.

And what one professor said is an unsubstantiated anecdote.

Colleges push kids to spring to fill beds left by dropouts and kids away for a semester. You can read up on this. I don’t make it up to argue the colleges are, ahem, “corrupt.”

Sheesh.

If a kid applies and the only Why Us is, I’ve dreamed of you (or since freaking kindergarten,) it looks superficial. What, at five, you decided and that’s it? That’s the best you can put forth?

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Lots of kids do the dreaming Why Us, btw. Or, You’re a top college and I want a top college. Or, you’ll best prepare me for my dream (or goal) of, more often than you’d guess, getting admitted to med school.

Not kidding. It’s not considered the level of informed the college wants to see. Nor the thinking or drives/follow through. It’s generic and you can bet they repeat the dream, status, and career comments to other colleges.

The only concern about yield a family should have is whether they properly “show” the college targets they give a hoot to properly match, aren’t sleepwalking through the app. Cuz if you give the wrong impression, they likely don’t have time for you. They aren’t inclined to guess for you. Show, not just tell.

When you read CC, try to figure, over time, who’s guessing or venting.

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I’m not big on being social media. These forums, I’m on 3 due to interests I have in the subjects, and respect and enjoyment I have for the people on the boards, are as far as I go. I don’t post anything on my FB account. Just use it to keep up with others’ postings. I think it’s too easy to get too personal in social media, and you can’t take it back. Hurtful words that are there forever.

I’ve seen it a lot when parents vent about their kids or others that are having a hard time. Yes, it’s great to get it off your chest, get some ideas and feed back on difficult situations, but there are privacy issues of others that should be respected too. Nothing is really private on the internet.

As for college info, I’m glad we have forums like this. Some colleges have been outed for lying and cheating about their numbers (shame on you, GWU!) some myths dispelled. Though anecdotal here, and we can’t verify , it does open up our minds to possibilities that may not have occurred to us.

The very top schools have always had the luster ever since I could remember. Now more schools are getting attention. I like that.

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@mom2and Actually there are 37000 high schools in the USA. Also the thousands of overseas students applying as well.

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While not the schools one reads about on cc, there are many schools with open enrollment and very late application deadlines. There is a large university not far from me that has a july 1 application deadline for fall semester. And IIRC a large majority of students attend colleges within a 50 mile radius of their home, and the average # of applications is 4 (this is from memory). The skewed perspective here on cc is because of a self selected participatory group.

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As a follow-up to post # 289, @mom2and said about the NACAC list, while perhaps it lists additional spots available for other terms, the list is, per NACAC: