@Dis3456 we can’t afford our EFC and need merit money for all our kids. Oldest D took the money from Alabama even though she had a couple of LACs that we could afford…just.
I never, ever would have put her at UA, but surprisingly, it has worked out well. She joined a specialist residential program that focuses on the liberal arts. She is also in the Honors College and also (shock here!) a sorority. All of these elements, plus her club sports and a job, provide a way for her to fit. She admitted it was good for her to experience another part of the country (we are in the NE), and different kinds of people. She said to me recently that she realizes that there are many different kinds of ‘smart’ and that the world needs all of them.
She also saved a ton of money, had extra left over for travel, sorority, internships etc - and has money left for grad school. We could have swung a lesser known LAC, but we would have had the money for these extras. UA has also had in person classes this semester (but also has a rather lax approach to Covid…!)
Alabama is already on our list! We have some friends whose daughter is currently a freshman there (she was a NMF), and she’s loving it! We know it will be affordable too.
How much is “affordable”? What fit criteria make big public universities a bad fit?
There are small engineering-focused colleges if she wants engineering that makes most LACs unsuitable. Some are not that expensive (e.g. SD Mines, NM Tech), and some may offer significant merit to a top-end student.
The answer to your question is simply yes, especially at the top privates like the Ivies that only offer need-based FA. To take Brown, for example, 45% of the Class of 2024 received need-based FA, which means the remaining 55%'s paying the sticker price of ~75-80K w/loans, scholarships, parental savings; or a combination of all 3.
If cost is an issue, make sure to apply widely (safeties, matches, and reaches.) Arizona schools offer merit scholarships based on a SAT/ACT & GPA matrix, Oregon schools do as well, as do plenty of others. The top-most schools tend to not offer merit aid, as they are able to attract students regardless.
@Dis3456 - midwest family here; just wanted to say that our s20 is at Bama. His experience so far has been good (engineering). He joined a small fraternity - and in his pledge class there are two NMFs; and kids from everywhere - except alabama! NY; WI; IL; KY; NC; AZ; CA: MO; VA – etc. His roommates are from both coasts. He is thoroughly enjoying meeting people from all over. He’s loving the warm weather as well. We have 4 kids and have to go merit where possible. He chose bama over AZ; the other big contender in the (auto) merit game for us.
The reality is that elite college education is for the kids of very wealthy people. It is not an egalitarian enterprise. It is a system of oligarchy. Colleges like to obscure this fact by claiming to be “need blind”, but as you see in your case, this claim is misleading in many cases. The top 19 schools on USNews charge nearly $60k/ year in tuition, increasing every year. It’s abhorrent to me. We are sticking with our state university system as an ethical principle. Many of these top colleges intentionally build their luxury brand by creating artificial scarcity. They then leverage the brand to make gobs of money on, for example their hospital & medical systems.
Elite college education can also be for the kids of parents with modest means or almost no means.
What is abhorrent to me is that my state U is unaffordable to middle class families who live in my state, pay taxes to my state, and assumed that their kids would be able to go there without bankrupting the family. That’s abhorrent.
Princeton is affordable for the wealthy- ok. Princeton is also affordable for kids whose parents can’t afford their state U- that’s great.
But shame on State U’s for participating in the arms race for fancy dorms, incredible athletic facilities, gourmet food halls, etc. but pricing themselves out of reach.
If their parents are uncooperatively divorced, then only a few of the elite colleges could possibly be affordable, since most of them require both parents to cooperate with financial aid forms and paying.
But also, the reality is that the elite colleges admit classes of student heavily skewed toward the top end of family income and wealth, so relatively few of those from the families of modest or no means actually get admitted and are able to make use of their financial aid.
Agree that many states are failing to have their state universities provide educational opportunity for state residents from all family SES levels. Student loan debt by state can be compared at https://ticas.org/interactive-map/ to give an idea of how different states compare on this matter. NH, PA, CT, and RI have the highest average student debt, while UT, NM, NV, and CA have the lowest average student debt.
I’m not looking for free, Saillakeerie. I know full well how expensive “free” is.
But why state U’s have to engage in an arms race to have plush and gorgeous apartment-style dorms, food courts open until midnight, and steam rooms/weight rooms/fully outfitted Peleton facilities is beyond me. These amenities cost real money. Staff to provide services, capital expenditures, and then constant maintenance and upgrading.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood (a hundred years ago). If your dad owned a tire store, or your single mom was a school librarian, or you had two working parents- a guidance counselor married to a police officer- you went to the public flagship unless you “won” a scholarship somewhere else. The flagship U’s dorms were basic and spartan. The food was terrible most days, OK other days. But kids got a BA/BS at a price their families could afford and then got launched.
Those families in my town cannot afford the flagship anymore. They just can’t if they have more than one child, even with two incomes. But they pay taxes to the state, and I think their ire at being priced out is justified.
I have no solution to the “uncooperatively divorced” problem, unfortunately. But our legal system is not set up to deal with kids who are 18±- who still need support of some kind, even if not college bound.
@blossom I am not suggesting you are looking for free. But some people are talking about making it free. At least below certain family income levels. That will put huge upward pressure on costs and will make it very difficult for families above that income level to afford public colleges. Families well above that income level will be fine but not those above but still near it.
Colleges are run like businesses (because they are businesses). They are competitive. That arms race is an attempt to run ahead of the competition or at least stay even with it. Looking at threads here people talk about those features comparing colleges. Libraries, student centers, dorms, etc are part of on-campus tours. Attract better students. Increase rankings. Attract more research dollars.
I talked with the principal of my kids high school back when they were still there. Its ranked as one of the best school districts in the state. Principal talked about how the average kid from the district couldn’t get into the state flagship. That certainly wasn’t true when I was in high school as the state flagship had open admissions. Would it be better if it still did?
There are plenty of very smart kids at State flagships and opportunities for the exceptional to shine, even in a very large school. My D went to her flagship for free on scholarships and now is getting her PhD at Stanford with full funding. If the student plans on post grad then save the expensive out of state school for later. I think a lot of recognition came from being in the Honors college and doing undergrad research in my daughter’s case.
Sailla-I agree with much of what you write but would love a source that suggests a link between “rankings” and research dollars. I have been up close to targeted research grants to universities and I don’t recall the “rank” ever being part of the dialogue. Boeing doesn’t decide how to allocate research funds on whether Georgia Tech’s ranking has moved up or down three spots. Merck isn’t worried about an arms race between JHU and Pitt. Bottom line- expertise and critical mass of cutting edge researchers and facilities attracts research money and no credible grant proposal is going to tout the fact that some magazine ranked Princeton over Stanford or vice versa.
The arms race has a LOT to do with ego, and a lot to do with demographics (states with shrinking numbers of 14-16 year olds need to get some teenagers- fast- from neighboring states).
I’d feel a lot better about the fabulous living accomodations at my own state flagship if there was a direct path between the espresso bars in the lobby and research grants.
Like a lot of things, I don’t think there are singular causes of the arms race in colleges. And different elements of the race will appeal to different students. Some like fancy dorms. Some like nice student unions, libraries or workout facilities. Some like state of the art research/academic facilities. If something doesn’t appeal to someone, they may wonder why the costs were incurred for that.
Almost every state has an inexpensive option for a state school. No, maybe you can’t afford CU with its Buffalo shaped Million $$ pool, but you probably can afford Mesa state (which can come with a CU engineering degree) or Metro State which is in downtown Denver with transportation included in the student fees and a lot of FA programs. Should everyone in the state not get any fancy dorms or climbing walls because everyone can’t afford it?
NY has a lot of cheaper options for the students who can’t afford Stony Brook. Not everyone can go to Stony Brook, or UF or Penn State, but there are schools they can afford in the state system. Making state colleges free is not going to get everyone into Michigan or Wisconsin - there just isn’t enough room.
It’s okay with me if the free options for colleges are the CCs, the directional colleges, or the city colleges without football. Life isn’t always fair and some people get more because they pay more.
The lesson that many students learn while choosing colleges is that parental financial circumstances and choices are the main factors determining college choice. The student’s own achievements matter only within the parent-derived constraints.
Can be a challenge to neutralize benefits that parents with resources bring to their kids. Often a big reason people have those resources to help their kids.
Something that I expect will make matters worse in terms of affordability of state flagships is fact that increasing numbers of kids from upper income suburbs are choosing state flagships over expensive private colleges. Families either can’t (and no need to get into the age old debate here about whether they should be able to or could have or would have, lack of education priority, should sacrifice for a time, drop down to 2 luxury cars rather than 4 or 5 and 1 luxury trip a year rather than 3, etc. – reality is they do not have full pay liquidity) or won’t pay for full pay private are going to state flagships. Those families are less sensitive to state college prices. As a result, state flagships do not need to be as concerned with other people who struggle to pay increasing cost of state flagships.
People buy all sort of expensive things for all sort of reasons. Why would you find it surprising that some like to overspend on colleges? Most can live without fancier homes, cars, vacations, jewelry, weddings, purses, watches, clothing, make up etc than they can afford or at the higher end of what they can afford, at least education is a better thing to spend on.
