Latest California fires

Parent Cafe
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My son-in-law’s parents live outside of Sacramento on some land - I think about 25 acres… very rural area with winding roads - takes more than 20 minutes to get to a grocery store and it’s all narrow, rural roads. A couple of years ago, a teenager was driving along their road, looking at his phone, when he lost control of the car and drove off the road. His undercarriage sparked a fire that jumped the road and started burning on their land. It burned about eight acres, but the scary part was it got within 20’ of their barn where they have horses. They also have goats, pigs and chickens. But they barely had time to evacuate the horses from the barn. Thankfully the volunteer fire department got there fast enough (with helicopter help) that they were able to save all structures. And it’s lucky they were home when it happened.

When this happened, our SIL’s mom told us how unpredictable fire control can be. For instance (and I don’t have any anecdotal evidence to the most recent fires here, but I’m sure there are stories because this happens with any major fire) as firefighters are trying to contain a large blaze with many structures threatened, they sometimes have to decide to actually burn down a structure that hasn’t caught on fire yet, just so they get the fire containment line going that is most beneficial to the largest number of structures. So your house might not be on fire (the wildfires are close, though), but the fire crews may set it on fire to enforce the fire lines they feel are most advantageous to saving more structures. It’s such a crapshoot. During fire season, our in-laws borrow goats from their daughter’s property to minimize the dried grass. They can’t use a lawnmower.

These are not in communities that are built out; this is very rural CA, and if this fire had not been extinguished sooner, many other losses might have happened as it quickly spread to other land. Now the loss might not have only included property, but livestock, which some of these people depend on to make a living (not our in-laws case).

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that, although I was upset that State Farm wouldn’t write us a policy, our new place does have a tile roof; the house is stucco, so I feel as if we’re as safe as we can get. Yet around the corner from us is a trailhead that takes you up into the hills, through a city park. That’s where all the dried out stuff is… up the hill, and thankfully for the most part, fires travel up hills and not down. But it doesn’t mean the wind couldn’t bring an ember down our way. Again, stucco house and tile roof… I feel better.

Oh, and thank you for all the welcomes back. As you can imagine, we are very busy (just signed our papers… it could actually close today, if not tomorrow, so I’ll have to see how much time I have to come back here. Hopefully fingers crossed there will be no more fires to talk about on this thread.

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In HI, when we bought our home nearly 3 decades ago, it was NOT in the flood zone. Maps were redrawn so now this 60+ year old home IS IN the flood zone. Thus far in its 60+ years, it has never been flooded, though houses on the streets around us DID experience flooding for the first time ever in April due to a sudden hard downpour.

I agree in some places, new construction. In zones that may not be suitable for construction MAY be worsening the damage by floods but there are more and more storm and tornado warnings in HI in the past few years than ever in my life.

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Welcome back @teriwtt. Welcome to California.
I have lived in my community over 30 years and I felt like fires are getting more common and occurring more often. I decided to go a bit of Google research and found that the last few years we have had more fires. I think the combination of the fall winds and rain coming later if at all have made for prime conditions for fire. Last month we drove north on the 101 up to Northern Ca and my travel companion and I noted how brown all the hills were. In the case of the Camp Fire if they had had some late summer early fall rains those hills would have had some green on them and might have slowed that fire down.
http://www.sbcfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Major-Wildfires-in-Santa-Barbara-County-1955-2016.pdf
I am much more aware of defensible space around my home. We have a fire retardant roof, fire sprinklers and the fire department gives reminders to homeowners to keep the brush cut.
@takeitallin I hope you’re just taking a break from CC.

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From yesterday’s Sacramento Bee:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article221980270.html

Everyone in Paradise knew they lived in a fire zone. There were Ponderosa Pines in the middle of town, a sure indicator. Most took precautions. Even those who have spent their lives fighting fires had never seen anything like this fire. You can’t sandbag a tsunami.

I have a serious question for anyone who knows the insurance industry. My parents, like many in the area, had their insurance through a small, local company that is not likely to be able to cover all the claims on their own. Is there some type of guaranty like FDIC for bank accounts? The company is either so busy that you can’t get through or have stopped answering their phones altogether.

And welcome back @teriwtt .

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Check with CIGA, california insurance guaranty association.

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All cars melt in a fire. They are primarily made up of plastic and it’s derivatives. They burn hot and fast. And stink. You can’t really put out a car fire – just control the burn so it doesn’t take out structures. The car eventually burns itself out. Had one go up in my parking lot this summer. Took out the car next to it as well. Would have taken the whole row had we not had a few empty spaces.

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Insurance companies are regulated by states and they likely have bought reinsurance from reinsurers for losses beyond certain threshold. If the insurance company is inadequately reinsured and/or capitalized, it may go out of business. In that event, another insurance company may choose to buy its book of business or the state may step in, but neither is guaranteed.

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If the insurance regulators where doing their jobs you should be ok. Most companies will re-insure those risks when they get too high, so as not to become overloaded. Good luck.

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When did the drought start in CA? Would think that the drought had been a big cause of the increase in fires, that are then fueled by the plants and winds.

A few years back we visited relatives in a beautiful, mountainous part of NC. They lived in a beautiful area, but there were lots of windy narrow roads. We passed several totally torched houses. They said that if a fire occurs, people realize that by the time the fire trucks make it up to the location, the houses re usually engulfed. There is a risk to living in rural, wooded areas (and theirs did not have a drought or the Santa Ana winds). But people build/live on coasts in harms way of hurricanes, in earthquake prone areas, etc. Stuff happens…

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I must have Christmas on the brain. I read this sentence of @mom60 ’s post -

“We have a fire retardant roof, fire sprinklers and the fire department gives reminders to homeowners to keep the brush cut.”

  • and I read it as “reindeers” instead of “reminders”. ?
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Paradise got a ton of rain the winter of 2016-17, extending all the way to June. It filled up all the reservoirs like Shasta Lake that is right along I-5 north of Redding. It had been way down for a few years. The rivers ran high all that spring and the Oroville Dam nearly failed.

The downside is that the underbrush grew like crazy. Then the summer hit with a string of days above 100 degrees, some over 110. Then below normal rain again last winter. And another unbearably hot and dry summer.

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As long as we’re talking about natural disasters here, one of the big differences between those who are impacted by hurricanes/flooding and those impacted by fires and earthquakes is that, with flooding rains, most of the time, people have a head’s up that storm systems are coming their way and can make arrangements if they choose to leave or stay. When fires first start and are fueled by the Santa Anas you have very little time to evacuate. With earthquakes, there’s basically no warning. Hopefully science will advance in more beneficial ways in our lifetimes to predict some of these events sooner.

What is true in both situations is that people do choose to live in areas that are prone to natural disasters, both flooding, fire and earthquakes. We have recently chosen to move to an area where fires and earthquakes can be considered part of the risks of living here. But I grew up in Houston, so I am also used to this phenomenon, fully aware that my parents made a decision many, many years ago to live in an area that can be impacted by hurricanes and tornadoes (one thing I don’t have to worry about in LA). I remember when Hurricane Harvey hit the Texas coast over a year ago. Days before it hit, they were predicting rainfalls of 30+"

Did planners make bad decisions centuries ago to establish metropolitan areas in places that had higher risks for natural disasters? Maybe, but I doubt the science was as advanced as it is now, and they didn’t have the technology and science they do now. So people like us are moving into the area… for good reasons, a new job opportunity. Are we going to let the threat of fire or earthquakes scare us away? No, because if we didn’t move here, someone else was going to, for this new job.

@Magnetron - I like your analogy of not being able to sandbag tsunamis! That’s exactly what some people are expecting Californians to be doing. And it’s such a fallacy on so many levels. Again, I’m sure when settlers settled here, they had no comprehension of Santa Ana winds… again, think dew points in the negative numbers and winds of 60+ MPH for days on end.

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There was no warning before the flooding that occurred here in August. We knew it was supposed to rain, but not that it would rain almost 12 inches in 12 hours. Fortunately, only one person died. Unfortunately, one fatality is one too many. The damage was in the millions of dollars, to businesses, residences, and public lands. This area is not prone to natural disasters.

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People that have never been impacted by natural disaster want to believe it won’t happen to them or their community… Maybe time to think again. It can happen anywhere . And many times flooding, fires, etc. ,can come up very quickly.We have an almost 100 year old house. Has never flooded inside the house but our flood insurance keeps going up. We have been in our city for over 30 years and it has really been the last few years that have seen increased hurricane activity and tidal flooding. Flood maps kept getting reconfigured , especially after Sandy ,and homeowners have no control over that and loss of equity because of it. Natural disasters everywhere are leading to increased insurance costs - flood, earthquake, fire, etc. Very easy to lose equity in your home due to real or perceived threats. Many people can’t or don’t want to walk away from their properties and any opportunity to recoup equity. And many people don’t want to leave areas they grew up in, with family and friends nearby, areas that are more recently impacted. And many low income residents may have nowhere else to go.

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More people died in the camp fire than in the big earthquake of 1989, that occurred as people sat in candlestick park for the world series. Most were killed by the collapse of the double decker highway.

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Two of the biggest natural disasters in US history were the 1900 hurricane that hit Galveston, Texas and the Peshtigo, Wisconsin wildfire of 1871. In that fire up to 2,500 people were killed and twelve towns were wiped out. In those days there were no warning systems and no evacuations as a result.

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I thought people were talking about more recent establishment in low lying area that saw so much damage. not the old establishments. Damage will be less if we develop more responsibly. I get the feeling people like to escalate the difference. I would think it’s not all climate change or all human error. It’s more likely both and we can attend to what can be fixed immediately while thinking about a long term solution. Sparks from utility poles don’t jump over a 10 lane highway. It’s the fire caused by sparks that became tsunami. Yes, we can manage sparks or underbrush with sandbags.

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@sevmom You are exactly right, those that have not been affected by disasters tend to ignore the possibility (inevitability). I remember years ago when my in-laws bought in Florida. They were nearby other relatives that had been there for 30 years and knew the area well. On my first visit to their new condo I asked how much their wind storm premium was (I’m in insurance) and what company they found to write it and asked why they didn’t have storm shutters. The answer was “this area doesn’t get hit by hurricanes, it has been 40 years since anything has been close”. I tried to educate but being the SIL of course I knew nothing.

Fast forward 5 years and their area had taken a direct hit. While they had been fortunate and only sustained minimal damage suddenly there was talk of shutters, flood coverage, and wind coverage but of course cost now was a concern. Shutters went up and policies were purchased. Fast forward 5 years and the policies were cancelled as they were expensive and “this area doesn’t get hit” was back in the conversation because of a few good years. They got hit again this year, much worse than before so we have now gone back to the discussions of purchasing policies.

Out of sight out of mind.

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Meanwhile the media has moved on from the plight of those who lost their homes; 14,000 homes burned in the Camp Fire. 1,500 burned in the Woolsey fire.

I checked the San Francisco and Sacramento papers this morning and saw not much in the way of news about how those people are faring.

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I had forgotten about that one. My brother, the earthquake engineer, was living in Oakland at the time and working in SF. He had left work early to watch the baseball game, crossed the Bay Bridge, and, luckily, decided to take 580 instead of the Nimitz. He lived between the two highways. When the earthquake hit, he thought he had a flat tire and pulled over. He quickly realized that everyone else was also pulling over and the car was still shaking.

The power went out and nobody could get ahold of him until the next day. I hope my family is done collecting these stories.