<p>For years, chemistry magazines have been screaming that all US chemistry jobs would be outsourced and the field would be dead in the US. Guess how hard it is to find a qualified person to fill the job we need to fill like NOW??? We are not looking for a Chinese, Russian or Indian national who needs a visa, thank you. My friend is also looking to fill a position, but the pickings are slim. To paraphrase Paula Cole, where have all the chemists gone?</p>
<p>^
so, BB what would you advise a student currently at UW interested in chemistry to study? What are the options for someone with a degree in chemical engineering , either BS or MS? thanks</p>
<p>My advice to such students: get a solid background in all areas of chemistry (organic, physical, inorganic, analytical) as an undergrad to expose yourself as much as possible to all aspects of chemistry and figure out what interests you the most, then get a PhD with research experience in polymer chemistry, drug delivery systems, materials sciences, bioengineering, to name a few hot areas of chemical research. Look into the Bioengineering department at UW because it has many more exciting offerings that their Chemistry department, IMO.</p>
<p>Sorry BB, I beg to differ - SOME chemistry jobs have been outsourced and may never return. Synthetic organic/medicinal chemists are really hurting right now, especially with all the layoffs in pharma. Merck, Pfizer, Wyeth - I have colleagues, GOOD colleagues with national awards, who are either unemployed for 2+ years or who are grossly underemployed (as in making less than half what they used to make.) Looks at Derrrick Lowe’s blog - there’s real pain out there. I have friends, PhD and MS chemists, who tell anyone that will listen not to major in our area of chemistry any more, unless you also speak Chinese.</p>
<p>ACS is a joke. If you’re really looking for good, experienced synthetic chemists, then post your job link: I can think of 10 poeple I know personally who would love a job.</p>
<p>Sorry if I sound bitter. I loved chemistry but couldn’t make a living at it any more.</p>
<p>Structural engineering has been a good field for DH and me, even during the recession. Our jobs are hard to outsource, because we have to make site visits for design as well as construction observation. Even when times are tough, people need things built. I SHOULD add that we each got laid off several times when we worked for other firms. It wasn’t until we started our own company in 1999 that we started doing really well. Plus we get to work from home!</p>
<p>I spoke to a guy this morning at tennis and he said that there was an RIF at work last week but he survived. He said that he works in EDA and we all asked him what that was. It’s electronic design automation - a software area that I hadn’t heard of. Apparently it is an important area but subject to the economy. He told me what it was and who one of their large customers was.</p>
<p>It’s important to keep current and not get stuck in something that is in decline.</p>
<p>What is RIF? </p>
<p>Actually…I don’t know what many of the jobs mentioned are. But that’s ok. I like reading about them anyway.</p>
<p>And posts like scout59’s are scary. Smart people…successful people…struggling.</p>
<p>scout, that’s exactly why you do not see synthetic/medicinal chemistry among the chemical specialties I listed. The US is still the leader when it comes to biomaterials and polymer science, although Korea has been making a serious effort to jumpstart their own national programs (guess where they are looking for mentorship and help?).</p>
<p>In the chemistry areas where IP is still being generated, even the big dogs prefer to keep the research efforts in the US or in Europe. For example, a big pharma announced that they were canning their plans to do more research in India citing problems with Indian patent laws. <a href=“http://www.biospace.com/news_story.aspx?NewsEntityId=162606[/url]”>http://www.biospace.com/news_story.aspx?NewsEntityId=162606</a></p>
<p>RIF = Reduction in Force.</p>
<p>Even people in accounting have a hard time finding job. I think a lot depends on one’s age.</p>
<p>CS, it does; sadly, no one is immune to job loss. Look at what happened to Conan! :)</p>
<p>Much of pharma is still outsourcing major resources to India and China despite IP concerns -for example, see “Pfizer increases R&D in China”: [Pfizer</a> Increases R&D Commitment in China – Seeking Alpha](<a href=“Pfizer Increases R&D Commitment in China (NYSE:PFE) | Seeking Alpha”>Pfizer Increases R&D Commitment in China (NYSE:PFE) | Seeking Alpha)</p>
<p>Several large players have extensive contract deals with chemistry companies such as WuXi in China. I know it makes good business sense when you compare chemists’ salaries in the US vs China, which is why I remain pessimistic in the short-term about med chem jobs. Despite the recent merger with Wyeth, Pfizer/Wyeth now employs FEWER PhD and MS chemists than Pfizer alone did 5 years ago! </p>
<p>Yeah, I know I should get over my grumpiness and move on, but some days are easier than others.</p>
<p>Oh, the wonders of the Internet - you can find a reference to bolster your argument anywhere! I don’t mean to pick on you, BB, I’m just grumpy today and mad that my job disappeared. You’re right, much of chemistry still presents great job opportunities… just be careful what you chose. (Way back when, I thought I had chosen widely, too.)</p>
<p>By the way, the legal profession isn’t exactly doomed. Yes, even for graduates of the best law schools, it’s much harder to get a lucrative job (and, especially, to keep one) than it used to be, let alone to “make partner” at a big firm and become an instant millionaire. Not that it was ever easy; the percentage of beginning associates at big firms who ended up as partners was no more than 10% or so even 30 years ago.</p>
<p>And, yes, for anyone who loses a law firm job, it’s almost impossible to find a new one these days unless you have a “book of business” – your own clients – that you can take with you. Of course, people like that are the ones who don’t lose their jobs in the first place!</p>
<p>But there are always legal fields that are busy, even as others (like real estate) decline. Now, it’s bankruptcy! Plus, no matter what, people never seem to stop suing each other, hence the perpetual need for litigators.</p>
<p>What they really need to do is stop opening all these new law schools; there are many more lawyers who graduate each year than there are positions to fill.</p>
<p>And remember that outsourcing to lawyers in India (or any other foreign country) is not a realistic concern except for the most basic tasks. Lawyers are effectively a guild; you have to be a member of the bar of a particular state in order to practice law there. I’ve heard many stories about lawyers being burned even by using foreign lawyers for things like reviewing documents. Too many mistakes; too much incompetence; too difficult for people to grasp the American legal system even for those purposes, and even for foreign lawyers who live in common-law rather than civil law jurisdictions.</p>
<p>The big law firm model (lots of associates billing lots of hours, plus high leverage in terms of partner/associate ratio, plus ever-increasing hourly billing rates that corporate clients are willing to pay, equal huge and ever-growing profits for partners) may not be doing well these days. And there are thousands of unemployed lawyers out there, unable to find anything at all. But the law is hardly a dying profession.</p>
<p>HImom - Both daughters have embraced the “follow your passion” advice with their majors - Arts & Entertainment Management and Hospitality Management. Together they have a backup plan to open a smoothies and muffin shop since my youngest likes to make smoothies and my eldest likes to bake muffins. I’ve found my eldest to be seeking my advice much more now than when she was in HS and I’m guessing my youngest will do likewise.</p>
<p>I agree we’re all different. I just see employee/employer loyalty being replaced with performance. Compensation models have gone from Pensions (rewarding longevity) to portable 401K/403B plans (longevity neutral). And if a non-employer based healthcare option becomes available I don’t see any golden handcuffs keeping employees with an employer. So I suspect there will be much more frequent job/career changes. Of course this is trying to predict the future…</p>
<p>Engineering, as many fields, unfortunately CAN have jobs disappear through no fault of the employee. A friend’s husband was unemployed for quite a while, when he had previously had a very secure job as an engineer. The wife started trying to convince him to go back to school for another degree but he finally landed another engineering job & seems pretty happy with it.</p>
<p>I’m hoping S chose wisely with EE. It is VERY frustrating to see good jobs going overseas, even if it makes economic sense for the companies (who of course need to watch “the bottom line.”)</p>
<p>scout, I’m sorry you’ve lost your job. I did not spend much time looking for something to support my argument. I read Biospace and Xconomy daily, and I remembered seeing that article when it just published. More examples: our company was contemplating doing some R&D activities in one of the BRIC countries, but backed off for the same reasons. A friend says his company will never outsource their chemical manufacturing because they like to keep a tight grip on their technology. Of course, these examples are just some more anecdotal evidence to support my point, but I feel that it is becoming more common, especially among the smaller companies who generate technology IP as their main “product” for now.</p>
<p>I agree, BB - most mid-and small-companies are (rightly) leery about outsourcing technical IP to countires that are still developing IP policies. Lord knows, I sat in enough meetings where our local R&D smart guys “begged” The Powers That Be to avoid contract chemical companies in certian countries. They did avoid Eastern Europe but seem to have no problem with India or China. Time will tell how wise this was.</p>
<p>And IBB, didn’t mean to insinuate that you went fishing for references - I was indicating that I went fishing! Sorry if it sounded like I was ragging on you.</p>
<p>So…are fewer drugs going to be developed by the drug companies because of the downsizing?</p>