Even phlebotomy schools are providing an education, and with any type of education, there should be some growth. Maybe not what you define as "intellectual " growth in the elite sense of a liberal arts type major that you think highly of, but some degree of growth, nonetheless. What would you do then with a kid who says they want to major in sports management and you don’t feel that it is a challenging major? I’m just curious.
I try to serve the needs of that student. I start at 30,000 feet and work through the different models of education that are out there. I talk to the family and student about whether they care about things like rigor. I talk about what different business programs offer and the pros and cons of a narrower program.
I have a student right now who is torn between a traditional engineering education and an apprenticeship program. I’m trying to help him figure out what he cares about and what path will be right for him.
Thanks. That makes sense. It sounds like even though you yourself value a rigorous, elite education, that is not getting in the way of working through what is best for a particular kid.
There are 5 things I’d like my kids to learn in college, regardless of major:
1)How to communicate well - reading, writing, presenting.
2)How to be open minded, humble, and always willing to admit they don’t know something and change their opinion about something.
3)How to think critically. I think a course in skepticism and critical thinking should be mandatory at all colleges.
4)How to solve very complex, difficult problems.
5)How to work well with other people, even people they can’t stand. This can include strategies for minimizing their interaction with difficult people 
I think most of the Humanities majors give you #1, and most of the STEM majors give you #4, but I don’t think there’s any guarantee they’ll learn the other 3 through the minimum major requirements of most majors.
I’ve known both engineers and former Humanities majors who somehow managed to get out of college without ever developing critical thinking skills, at least in the way that I define it - not being an easy target of Conspiracy Theorists.
It boggles my mind what educated people are capable of believing if they really want to believe it badly enough.
I don’t want to throw the thread off in a crazy direction, but I’ll give two examples:
-An Electrical Engineer who was convinced that George Bush intentionally brought down the twin towers because he read an article stating so on a web site. He offered to show me the article as proof
-A former Humanities major with amazing writing skills, and all around high intelligence, who believes that Big Pharma is involved in a conspiracy to suppress a cancer cure derived from Hemp. When I point out that every science professor studying cancer at all of the universities across the world would have to be in on such a conspiracy, he is undeterred, and expresses sadness at how my education has failed me!
Well my goals for my girls’ college education strangely mirrored my answer when answering a question for a K program. (And the answer came quickly to mind, fwiw.)
Part of it was to prepare them to identify and take on a variety of academic or intellectual challenges in life, as they wished, if they wished. To be educated widely enough in the basics to know they could tackle a new direction. Something like that. Funny, because that’s what I realized, 20 years later, was my hope for their college experiences. If they had wanted to be rug shampooers, I would have still wanted them to be “educated” with some depth and breadth. Somehow.
(One of the smartest guys I knew in college, btw, a math major, turned out to be a garden guy, who designs and maintains. Happy as a clam. Still intellectually driven. In college, he and friends had started a lawn service that made them a huge amount. And on the side, he did grow something. You can figure what. Fascinating guy.)
The garbage some people are posting on their Facebook pages these days confirms that many people, sadly, either never had or have somehow lost their critical thinking skills. It crosses all levels of education.
@lookingforward, I knew a few guys in college who were minoring in horticulture on the side, too
I’m not sure what this thread is even about anymore.
I do know this: I’ll gladly leave carpet cleaning school to the kids down the street. Mine will be educated classically.
If Matt Damon doesn’t like it, then I’m happy to tell him I like them apples just fine.
@sevmom - you are committed to the cause; I’ll give you that much. I don’t agree with you at all, but I do admire your persistence.
@jym626, I really think it does cross all levels of education, and even all levels of intelligence.
I can think of several people in my life who are very smart, but have absolutely terrible judgment and no ability to think critically. I think even a single class in critical thinking would change many of these people for the better.
What’s a useless degree?
Any degree from ITT Tech.
And like another poster said - any degree from an unaccredited school.
Film Studies
Music Performance
Studio Art
A degree program that you never finish, but end up with 10’s of thousands of dollars in debt that you have to pay back, only now it’s hard to do that because you didn’t finish college
A degree that you hate but you only studied it because your parents insisted that you do it their way or they wouldn’t pay for your college education
A BA in “General Studies.”
Engineering Management - nobody is going to hire you fresh out of college into a position in management. You have to earn your way up to that. Get a regular engineering degree and work a few years and then you can get into management.
Recreational Studies - aka the degree in Parks & Rec
“Film Studies
Music Performance
Studio Art”
And these are useless why, @tucsonmom? I know recent grads with each of these majors that are employed and supporting themselves. Sounds like you don’t value the arts. Good thing Lin-Manuel Miranda didn’t have you as a parent.
Though some of the people I thought weren’t deep thinkers have surprised me on FB.
The for profit schools are of little utility. And many are going away. ITT tech was the latest casualty http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/26/pf/college/itt-tech-lawsuits/
Back in the day, I worked with very good techs who trained at ITT, DeVry, etc. But back in the day.
Back in the day the computer runs were done with punch cards. There’s a job skill that went the way of the dodo bird.
Most of the “liberal arts type” courses are science prereqs required for the Pharmacy degree/profession according to the Pharmacy program requirements my HS classmates and friends were held to before the Pharm.D became the minimum prereq to become a Pharmacist.
The amount of room to explore is exceedingly limited and something several pharmacists I’ve known, including an ex regretted.
The ex in particular was exceedingly regretful, especially after feeling she made a mistake in going into the Pharmacy field despite working in and excelling in the field for 10+ years in a hospital setting.
She has said if she could, she’d rather have majored in an Arts & Science major and some more intellectual exploring during undergrad. However, back when she was in HS, the prevailing atmosphere among the social group she was a part of was to major in something pre-professional leading directly to a specialized profession.
Unfortunately, she admitted in retrospect that she didn’t take enough time to think about whether the Pharmacy career path was right for her and only realized it after she’s worked in the field for a few years.
In the process, she’s felt increasingly trapped due to the years expended in a highly specialized educational program, “golden handcuffs” due to her success in the field, and fears of starting from 0 as she felt the pharmacy degree curriculum she experienced was extremely narrow and doesn’t lend itself well to careers completely out of the Pharmacy/Pharmaceutical field.
There have been changes in pharmacy since you were in high school and college. Longer time to get the degree is one of them , a doctoral degree . It is not uncommon to already have a bachelor’s before going to pharmacy school. So, you could certainly study something like biology or chemistry first. I believe there are also accelerated programs that are school specific… http://bulletin.vcu.edu/undergraduate/undergraduate-study/academic-advising/prehealth-prelaw-advising/preparation-study-pharmacy/
Pharmacy students would have a strong science background. If a person no longer wants to be a pharmacist, they can look for opportunities elsewhere. People do that all the time when something they studied no longer suits them. Sorry your friend is feeling so trapped.
Just as there are people who may regret pursuing something like the pharmacy requirements as an undergraduate, there will be people who pursued more general majors as undergraduates and regret they did not pursue something more practical, for want of a better term.