@eyemgh We are in agreement that it is in fact everywhere. I noted that - of course it would be ludicrous to say this is confined to Cal Poly. That said, it is more widespread at certain places than others. We’re just trying to do our due diligence. To OP’s point, it is probably better at Lehigh (just my opinion) and some of the private schools - and schools without Ag schools, if we’re calling that out. No matter what, it was a great jumping off point for us to have the conversation with our son. I’m still frankly dismayed by parental response to the incident and the subsequent suspension. It certainly gives a window into many family’s perspectives/politics/viewpoints. I’m in the parents FB groups of his 3 (now 2?) final choices for college…It’s a very interesting window into three very different campus cultures. They are indeed not all the same. I will also note, and I hope you are not in this category (I don’t think you are based on responses) there are some who are in the “there must be zero negative talk about Cal Poly and you may not criticize any thing about it, except the food.” There are pros and cons to all schools, obviously. For people like OP and myself, we are still in the “choosing” mode and must be able to discuss the issues and that’s why we are looking for data or even anecdotal evidence like yours to ascertain the climate. Perhaps when we choose one, I will become a crazy pro-MY SON’S SCHOOL IS PERFECT fanatic but I hope not. Intractable positions are why we have become so polarized as a country. I hope we can continue to discuss and even disagree civility. Cal Poly is an amazing school, but it has some real racial tensions that should be addressed, that should not be dismissed because “racism is everywhere”. And right now, they have been brought to the surface by this incident. The light is shined on them now, for better or for worse - how the community and the administration respond will say a lot about both.
@NWhummingbird, my take about Cal Poly, and I’m not there, nor am I a minority, so take this with a grain of salt, is that this sort of thing is like a relapsing remitting disease. It flairs up every once and a while (the last time was 4 years ago), but for the most part, things are pleasant and calm. That does not mean things are always perfect for the individual, nor does it mean that implicit bias doesn’t flow in the undercurrent. That’s not to minimize, dismiss, or accept it. It is merely an observation.
Parents and students have popped out of the woodwork, completely uneducated as to a school’s programs and policies and claim they “aren’t doing anything.” Maybe you could say Cal Poly didn’t do enough, because this happened, but you cannot say they aren’t doing anything. There is a department of Diversity and Inclucivity that trains students and staff. They have had a part in student orientation since 2016. They have ongoing faculty training. Cal Poly gives admission advantage, to the best they can under CA law, by giving a substantial boost to students at Hayden Partner Schools and to students who have one or both parents who did not finish High School. Both are correlated with lower socio-economic status, and thus with minority status, although, probably least so for Asian-Americans. To say they aren’t doing anything is to be ignorant of the facts. Linked at the bottom is a good article that summarizes this better than I. It’s by a former CSU Trustee.
As for what they can do about this specific incident, that is a very complex and nuanced problem that this country is in the middle of sorting out. “Fighting words” are not protected by the First Amendment, but thus far, hate speech has not been classified as such. Expelling students for the behaviors we’ve seen at the Cal Poly fraternity can be seen as a constitutional violation. Indeed, the University of Alabama is being sued right now for expelling a student for racist postings on Facebook. I do not envy the line any university president has to toe. Their institution is judged by the behaviors of individuals that they have minimal influence and control over.
If they catch the person(s) who defaced the Ag professors office, they can and will be prosecuted for vandalism.
I don’t read everything in the Facebook group, but what I have read has been interesting to say the least. Because it, any social media for that matter, doesn’t foster nuance, you have posters going all in on their main issue. Discussions quickly devolve into “you’re a racist” “I’m not a racist” and the moderators appropriately shut the thread down. Take that group or College Confidential for that matter also with a grain of salt. By definition, we are the parents that are the most involved, often over involved, with our students. We are frequently parents who seek affirmation of our student’s college choices.
Other Facebook groups might look “better” simply because they aren’t being pressure tested right now.
Cal Poly is not by any means perfect. No school, I mean NO school is. Discounting the beautiful location, the main advantage from my perspective, especially as the parent of an engineering student, is how they choose to educate their students. Students from every major walk out of Cal Poly having done, in a meaningful way, what they will be expected to do in the work force after they graduate. They are prepared to be productive. It is a VERY small sample size, but the feedback my son got from his two internships was that he FAR exceeded their expectations. That is due in part to his work ethic, but in large to how Cal Poly taught him to solve problems.
In the final analysis, there are LOTS of good options out there. If Cal Poly does not feel “right” for whatever reason, I’d recommend a student chose another option. The reality is, their experience will be far more related to the effort they put in than it will be to the name of their school.
Lastly, I hope @NLinsanity can chime in. His perspective is much more valid than mine. He has been there, as a minority, and lived through the last controversy, the Bros and Nava Hos debacle. He’s now in NYC, far from his California home. His view would be invaluable.
BTW, think it’s better at Lehigh…think again.
Good luck on the quest.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/opinion/readers-opinion/article209469524.html
does anyone have any specific information about the politica science departments at the two schools, either independent of each other or to compare
What is the price difference and how will you pay it? What do you plan to do with your degree?
Agreed @eyemgh that this incident is a “pressure test” the others aren’t going through. It’s very hard to get a good picture like this. Little to go on besides anecdotal. For clarification, I don’t think and didn’t say the administration is “doing nothing”. I think the president’s recent decision to suspend the greek system is correct - though I’d clearly be in the minority on that parents’ page, which is why I don’t post there. I wish someone would post the editorial from a student supporting his action. (I’ll link at the bottom - please share in that group if you feel so inclined). It seems they only post the pro-greek ones which get lots of “likes”. To be clear, I’m glad my son isn’t on Facebook or part of that group. He’s very conflicted over which school to pick right now. We’ve gotten all the info on programs, internships, availability of courses, club options, housing options and location amenities. They are both great choices (we’re definitely down to 2). It is far harder to research/evaluate the campus climate as far as tolerance and racial tensions. All we can do is ask people their opinions at this point…would love to hear from @NLinsanity or any other alum, but at this point we’ve talked to 10-12 current students and I summarized the consensus in an earlier post. Now just waiting for him to make the call. On our tour during open house, the protesters marched by and drowned out our tour leader for a few minutes. He was amazing and encouraged us all to talk to the students who were protesting and hear what they had to say. Then he pulled two of them out, one a member of the BSU, who came over to talk to our tour group of about 30-40 parents/kids. They spoke articulately, politely and passionately about the situation, then took questions from parents and prospective students. (A lot of parents also had questions about the “serial rapist” that was mentioned on the flyers and posters). All involved were great. The member of the BSU closed with, “I want students to be aware of the situation here, and if you choose to come here, to ask you all to be part of the solution, as we work to make this a better place for minority students.” Can’t ask for any better response than that, IMHO. I’ll let you know what he decides! Thanks for engaging with me.
@NWhummingbird, thanks for the link. What is the other school? BTW, I understand both sides of the Greek debate, but my son was very pleased with President Armstrong’s actions. My son’s words echoed the editorial writer. He said Greek life is not a right, it is a privilege, one that can be taken away.
25k versus 68k a year as of rn. Idk what I plan to do with my degree, potentially law school @eyemgh
Law school is expensive, so saving $172k looks like a good idea for a prelaw student.
$275,000 is a lot to pay for ANY degree. There’s no way going into debt makes sense, if you even could. That differential is well beyond what you can personally borrow. If your family has that saved, you’d be FAR better off to save the difference and invest it, or use it for your post-secondary education. I’m with @ucbalumnus…save the money.
@eyemgh The other one he’s looking hard at is CU Boulder. He got a scholarship so the price is roughly the same as Cal Poly. He is interested in aerospace/astronautics, so both programs are very good. We were sure he was going to go to Cal Poly (he said 99% sure before the open house) but now Boulder has re-emerged. Also not without its problems and troublesome frats (my son has no intention of joining one at either place). We’re trying to do our due diligence on campus climate there too. A week to go…
@NWhummingbird, Boulder is a great location and has a solid reputation. The advantages, discounting the obvious of mountains vs beach, if he has a preference, is that CU will have more research opportunities, a closer proximity to the city and real athletics. The trade-off will be larger class size and labs/discussions taught by TAs. Cal Poly is also still on the quarter system which I think is an advantage. Lastly, CP offers the rare ability to concentrate in either aeronautics or astronauts. I’m not sure if that’s an option at CU or if it’s that big of a deal. To say one is better would really fall down to the intangibles important to the individual. He’ll do fine at either of he makes the most of his opportunities. My son agonized over his final 3 until 2 days before the deadline. 
He might also look up the job placement. He’ll probably have an advantage at Ball Aerospace, Sierra Nevada and United Launch Alliance, at CU, but more traction with places like SpaceX, SSL, and Virgin Galactic at CP, simply based on the fact that lots of recruiting is regional.
@ladyp0et, sorry we co-opted your thread.
CU Boulder’s IFC fraternities were derecognized in 2005 after they refused to abide by conditions of recognition (involving alcohol and recruitment issues) after an alcohol-related death. But those chapters remain as off-campus organizations with houses and an independent IFC (though a few of those chapters have been ejected from the independent IFC as well).
The current “official” IFC at CU Boulder has two fraternities (one of which now has a no-alcohol policy). In addition, there are five NPHC (historically black) and three MCGC (historically Asian, historically Latino, multicultural) fraternities, as well as twenty sororities (four NPHC, four MCGC, twelve PHC) with campus recognition.
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2017/12/15/collateral-damage-how-fraternities-can-continue-thrive-after-pledges-die/957430001/ has some of the history of fraternities at CU Boulder.