Lehigh vs Colgate vs Umass vs Syracuse vs UMD college park

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UMass Isenberg is excellent. Great college town, great food, and even the opportunity to cross-register for classes at the LAC’s in the consortium. (It’s also a National Student Exchange school, FWIW.)

For the in-state price, this sets an awfully high bar in terms of bang-for-the-buck, quality of education, and quality of life.

UMD, spring start, not-the-business-school, and OOS full-pay-minus-$12K, which is still over 50K/year? What’s keeping this in contention?

Syracuse with 36K merit is still over 56K/year. Whitman+Honors is good - will offer that span of strength in both business and liberal arts that you’re looking for. But the value-added is going to need to be discerned, because UMass is academically comparable, IMO.

Colgate, Lehigh… full-pay, not-business… that’s a lot of money to compromise on what is really desired academically, and I’m not hearing that either one is a slam-dunk for your kid in some other way.

“Going small” does not mean you don’t have to compete. It doesn’t even necessarily mean a more welcoming/nurturing social experience (my kid and many of her small-school peers learned this the hard way). To get the most out of college, you have to take a lot of initiative, no matter where you go. Kids who opt out of large publics, because they think opportunities will come more easily at a smaller school, often learn that it’s just a different flavor of competition. And kids who attend large publics, thinking they’re going to feel like “a number,” are often surprised at the extent to which their efforts are met with willing mentorship and advocacy as long as they do their part.

My sense is that if you took the “familiarity breeds contempt” factor out of the equation here, none of the other choices would provide a clear advantage worth paying for, over UMass. But if you visit and one of the schools wins you over, that’s great, as long as the burden is on them to resonate with your kid to a sufficient extent.

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I note Colgate has a dedicated Mathematical Economics major:

As they say there, it is a major worth seriously considering if graduate business programs might be of interest.

Of course that is definitely not the same thing as an undergraduate business program. But if the plan is undergrad, work for a couple years, then do a Masters of some sort related to business or finance, that would be one suitable major to consider.

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I assume that your reference is to the city of Syracuse, not the campus; if so, I agree.

100% agree.

100% correct. (Especially accurate for those enrolled in public flagship honors colleges as well as for those at elite private National Universities with an attractive student:teacher ratio.)

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Glad to hear you’re touring the schools and trying to find a good fit. Many kids say they want to “study business”…but what they really mean is they want to be in the business world or the finance world not really knowing what that means or how to explain different jobs and roles. I want to study finance doesn’t necessarily mean a kid wants to understand the difference between CAPM or WACC formulas or how to calculate derivetive metrics…which is what you learn in a corporate finance class (which is taught in many LACs as well as business programs). Other than Big 4 accounting, which is a specific major where you would need a bunch of accounting classes under your belt that most (or at least many) LAC’s don’t go as deep on, there wouldn’t be a limiting factor in the business world for those attending a LAC. If anything, many of those schools on the east coast have very deep networks in the capital markets/finance/banking/consulting worlds. Banking, finance, i-banking, consulting will all be on the table. Like anywhere else, he will need to work hard, network, join clubs, get good grades, etc. Most of my son’s friends got good internships across a spectrum of companies and industries.

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I’d like to see how Syracuse develops after Route 81 is offset and a “Community Grid” reconnects neighborhoods.

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Economics is not business or finance, but many economics departments, particularly where there is no business major, do offer business adjacent and finance courses for economics majors with a more pre professional “business” leaning.

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Does Colgate’s? I don’t know. I don’t get that sense from looking at the curriculum but you are much better at analyzing.

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For insight into Colgate’s economics department, this analysis may be of interest:

Economics rankings: US Economics Departments at Liberal Arts Colleges | IDEAS/RePEc

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The Colgate course listing for economics does like some financial economics courses and one accounting course.

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As you consider schools, be aware of the new cuts to programs at Syracuse. Sounds like your kid’s top-choice major is unlikely to be affected, but it’s worth looking at how this news will affect academic opportunities overall.

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To give context if OP isn’t aware -

Syracuse University to eliminate 93 academic programs | Higher Ed Dive

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32

This is him, he wants to work on the business world, but really doesn’t know ‘what’ he wants to do. He goes to a very competitive private HS, so I think he felt the need to ‘declare’ what he wants to do. It was process of elimination. Science was out for him bc just didn’t like chem, bio, physics. Engineering was out because he dind’t find it appealing.
Also, in this ever changing world, ideally I want him to study something that keeps his options open.
So we are the crossroads of ‘where to study’.

I let him read this thread too.

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The reality of life is there isn’t just one place where one can succeed.

But that he goes to a competitive private, probably leans against UMASS I’m assuming. It might be the best b school on the list - but it’s not high fallutin’ like Lehigh and Colgate and SU to some extent.

I think many miss - they can be successful and have a great experience at numerous places.

But they can also attend the dream and end up miserable - we see that every year on here - and had one two years back from a Colgate like school (Hamilton).

So one truly doesn’t know.

But while you try to find the best of the four for your student, it could be they’d excel at all four, three of the four, two of the four, at only one…or even none.

So while you try to find “the one” - just know - it can easily be more than one that work.

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This is many kids and it hasn’t been made easier with the cloud of AI hanging over all the different roles. As someone who went to a “public ivy” but didn’t have the maturity/discipline to keep myself focused or organized…”you mean i can just not show up to this 200 person class for 2 weeks, cram for the midterm and no one will notice?!”…not a good strategy by the way…there’s something magical about hearing my kid talk about his 25 person classes and how the professor (no TA’s) takes students to lunch or goes through problem sets in office hours. The alumni base is also pretty impressive and responsive. He started pre-med and switched to Econ his sophomore year and has enjoyed Econ a lot more (he’s also loved his other classes like philosophy and art history…which totally surprised him and us). That said…you have to be prepared (or maybe even enjoy and thrive) in the small and intimate nature of a school like Colgate. My kid gives it a 7 or 8 on the social level…because he sees his friends loving it on a higher level than him.

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Yeah, it gets complicated. On the one hand, there is something to be said for peers who actually like school and will encourage, if only by example, actually attending and participating in classes for the inherent value of the experience. On the other, that sort of “academicky” vibe might go too far for some kids, who might prefer a somewhat different cultural/social vibe. And it isn’t actually a simple one-dimensional dial, it is really multiple intersecting dimensions of academic attitudes, social preferences, personality types, and so on.

The good news is it is true most kids are pretty adaptable and could likely thrive at a variety of colleges–and transferring is a viable option in the few cases where a specific college really turns out to be a bad fit.

Still, it is reasonable to want to walk in thinking you made the best possible decision given what you know, and that isn’t always easy to figure out.

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Thank you all for sharing. When I went to college/university there really wasn’t a ‘choice’. I got into an accelerated program and parents said ‘you are doing this.’ I made the best of it even though I cried the night before I left. I had not ‘options’ to choose from.
I think he will thrive wherever he goes, he just has to figure out what kind of school he wants. We are off to visit Boston University and Lehigh next week. Just under the gun to make a decision…..

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Nothing better than in person visits to direct you. BU seems a new entrant not mentioned b4. City to the point of no campus so will be different.

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It is my Alma mater, so I asked him to apply. He got it and even though it is opposite of what he ‘wants’ I asked him to go to admitted student day. At least he can get a feel for big city campus. I want him to make sure he gets a chance to rule out something after experience in it….

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If your son already made his decision… congrats! If not, I’ll just add that I have a kid at Colgate. She’s super happy, but it’s not perfect (no school is). Here are some things I would’ve liked to have known. We did look at Lehigh and Syracuse (with a different kid) also.

  • It is cold and snowy. You know that… but you don’t really know it until you go through it. They manage, but there’s a reason Colgate invented spring break (true story). Syracuse isn’t any better and Lehigh isn’t tropical, but has better weather.
  • Freshman year takes some time to get acclimated socially. The Greek system is big at Colgate and you can’t really go first semester. Second semester the guys will actually get invited out to some parties, but the girls don’t (surprisingly). My daughter found her friend group second semester though. I think that happened because they couldn’t pledge yet. She is in a sorority (there are only 4 but there seems to be one for everyone if they want to join and there are more fraternities). Now she’s started to branch out more and made more friends outside her circle.
  • It’s helpful to have a car. Colgate allows freshmen to have cars. The town of Hamilton actually has most of what college kids need. A few restaurants from cheap to nice. A nice super market, a couple pharmacies, etc. But it’s nice to be able to get to other towns for bigger staple stuff.
  • Colgate puts a ton of kids on Wall Street and consulting firms. My daughter has a couple friends that already have internships set up for a year from this summer. The Econ major is rigorous. Don’t expect straight As.
  • The worst part of Colgate, as a parent, is getting hotel rooms for big weekends. There are only two hotels in town and they book immediately (and I think rooms are reserved by the school). It’s not the end of the world, but we’ve stayed 30 minutes away.
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Thanks for the deep dive into Colgate! He has two friends going there, and we are from New England, so Long cold winters are in our blood.
We are off to Lehigh this weekend for their all day admitted students day. I hope he narrows it down by end of the weekend.

I will say the hardest part about this process is, when he didn’t get into his dream school, how to choose the next best thing? All are equal in their offerings etc. I am hoping he gets a good feel after this weekend and can make a choice….

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