<p>^^^Oh really? Where did this come from? </p>
<p>Black people currently make up 12.8% of the population</p>
<p>*Only 3 black senators elected since reconstruction
*Currently 43 black members of congress total, 8%
*Only 57% of black mayors are elected in cities without a black majority
*Oh, and 0 black presidents</p>
<p>I’m trying to see how that makes the government “substantially more african american than the general population”</p>
<p>Mr. Obama attending the church for 20 years (not one or two time) and then he claimed that he was never present during these hateful sermons. He even allowed his daughters to be present during such a bad act against other people. This is big question mark that I have about Mr. Obama’s judgment. How can he claim that he will represent other people with such a myopic view.</p>
<p>Afterall he is a typical politicains, not a earth shattering messaigh that people think.</p>
<p>@mini</p>
<p>Well there were a few points. I’ll number them here:
<p>@JHS</p>
<p>He joined Wright’s church in 1988. He had just met Michelle that same year (keyword: met, not dated or even married).</p>
<p>As for working in African-American community, that is a likely reason for conversion.</p>
<p>As for political aspirations, that was my whole POINT!! He might have converted for politics.</p>
<p>@Mr Payne</p>
<p>Regarding the AIDS, okay, that seems pretty nutty to me. But that was never in the media snippets I heard. It was always the extended “god damn America” clip.</p>
<p>Regarding the atomic bombs, Wright is Wright here. You are killing innocent people when you do such indiscriminate killing.</p>
<p>It was a slip of the tongue, Mr Payne. He meant to say that white people deliberately lied to black people about their diagnosis and withheld medicine that would cure them just so they could study how the disease progresses. And it wasn’t AIDS, it was syphilis.</p>
<p>Just a slip of the tongue.</p>
<p>@kluge</p>
<p>Was that in Africa? Can you give me a link to that? It sounds vaguely familiar. If it is true, I don’t see any racism on the part of the people who did the exploiting. The people they just happened to exploit were black. I’m sure they wouldn’t have minded doing the same thing to some Vietnamese or Eskimos. Of course, I am assuming that Wright gave this story as evidence for “white racism”.</p>
<p>
Still not quite as bad as Hillary hauling Chelsea along with her through sniper fire. (couldn’t resist)</p>
<p>Who says his children were in church during these sermons? Many churches dismiss the children to Sunday School just prior to the sermon. </p>
<p>Afruff23 - if you read Dreams of My Father, he writes very eloquently about the process he went through in becoming a Christian. It was not about one day realizing some higher political aspirations would be unattainable unless he converted to Christianity. He speaks very subtly about the inner struggle he went through in the process. Many people had an influence on his final decision to convert.</p>
<p>@teriwtt</p>
<p>So did he say why he converted for the most part? Getting close to community or belief in a supernatural being or what?</p>
<p>As someone in the ministry, this is a difficult question for me to answer because I’d wear out my keyboard trying to phrase it correctly. </p>
<p>The most simple thing I can say is that it was about him discovering who he was, apart from those who raised him (I can understand this process as I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and as an adult made a very difficult decision to convert to another Protestant denomination). As he began his community work, much of it was with local leaders in the communities, who often were leaders in their churches, too. He hinted at trying to understand why these people were so devoted, so committed, so passionate about the role of church in their lives. He’d been invited by people to visit their churches on Sundays, but had declined. Eventually the timing was right, and he accepted one of those invitations. </p>
<p>I tend to hone in on the topic of conversion because I’m interested in the process people go about in these journeys. What most concerns me (as someone who offers pastoral care to others) are those who have overnight conversions due to some sort of crisis in their lives. Let me elaborate - I’ve met people who were in some sort of identity crisis, and others around them tell them being born again is the answer. So the first time they walk into a church, they accept blindly that church’s doctrines and theology without consideration of whether it is authentic for them; someone is telling them this (and only this) is the answer for their crisis. But when you dig deeper with them in conversation and ask them how their faith brings them comfort, they can’t articulate it - they just repeat what they’ve been told.</p>
<p>On the other end, you have people who begin to realize something is not quite right in their lives (maybe it’s post crisis) and they begin to search, talk with other people, and more importantly listen to a variety of ideas. They process it in the context of who they are, and usually make a choice based on which option they feel they can grow more in. Embarassingly, I have not had a church home for two years, since being somewhat traumatized by the discovery that our married pastor was having an affair with our married worship director (who had five young children). They are both long gone, but the disappointment I feel in the Church (with a big C) has been staggering - there were signs that he was dysfunctional, and his higher ups did not treat the situation professionally, in my opinion. In this process, I myself, have been contemplating who I am in the context of the Church and the church. I know the answer is not alienating myself from church, but the spiritual process that I must go through in order to find a peaceful place is not quick or easy. But when I do make a decision, I know it will be genuine to who I am, and not the result of someone making promises to me to alieve all my pain. I think Barack was going through a particularly confused time during the time of his community organizing, and he became more open to what church had to offer. I would be much more suspicious if his experience had been an overnight conversion because in my experience of working with people, those types of conversions are rarely genuine, or long-lasting.</p>
<p>
So you want to excuse everything ? He said what he said.
I got past the tone and his focus freightened me.</p>
<p>The congregation bought it or else he wouldn’t have been their pastor. The same goes for the Obama family.</p>
<p>What is so bad about the Reveren Wright’s surmon of hate ? </p>
<p>Start with “God d*!#n America” and incredulous and stupid hyperbole about US govt injection blacks with aid virus. What does it to say about the people who attended his so-called surmon ? Do they need a relieve valve and the good reverend just provided it ?</p>
<p>Everything is tolerable or “taken out of context” if you are a liberal. You’d allow anything and everything.</p>
<p>“Start with “God d*!#n America””</p>
<p>Look, I’m not a Christian, but I’m pretty sure you damn people who kill innocent people. Wright even explained himself at that second by saying “for killing innocent people” for things like drug laws.</p>
<p>“and stupid hyperbole about US govt injection blacks with aid virus”</p>
<p>I can’t find this clip and I know little about the origin of the HIV virus, so I’ll plead ignorance here although I am 99.9% sure HIV is not man-made.</p>
<p>“Everything is tolerable or “taken out of context” if you are a liberal. You’d allow anything and everything.”</p>
<p>I’m not a liberal in any sense of the word except perhaps classical liberal.</p>
<p>I’ll start with a few thoughts</p>
<p>Was Wright wrong about the government spreading the HIV Virus? YES, but is that kind of anger justified since the United States did inject the syphillis into African-Americans during the Tuskegee Experiment. Maybe.</p>
<p>“God Damn America” is a phrase a pastor will bust out more than once if HE or SHE thinks Americans are collectively commiting a sin. We all remember what Fallwell said after 9-11</p>
<p>I heard it be said that if you travel overseas or Canada, that you do not declare yourself as an American and that you avoid the US dollar in making payments. </p>
<p>The association is that you live in America, twice voted for a not-so-bright President, continue to support a War affecting many Nations, causing Worldwide inflation and food shortages. </p>
<p>Personally, I don’t associate with many people because …[add your reason here]</p>
<p>Why do you think I like bleu cheese?</p>
<p>Why worry about a 30 second sound bite taken from 1,570 sermons over a 30 year period from Rev. Wright when so many voted for a guy who is good to have a beer with? Look what the latter is leaving us as he checks out for Crawford: a never ending stupid war, the blood of 4000+ young Americans soaking the sands in Iraq, the US Treasury depleted as we go more indebted to China, our bank of choice, etc, etc.</p>
<p>Hondo dont minimize everything. Dismiss it as a 30 second this or that. Like YW said “he said what he said”. He couldn’t have just stepped out of character in a single sermon.</p>
<p>After this unnecessary war and our current recession I feel like shouting G<em>d D</em>*n America from the rooftops. I voted for GWB and yes I’m now bitter! If this country can’t see what a treasure we have in a candidate like Obama, then this country deserves what it sows in the election.</p>
<p>I can’t believe I admit I voted for GWB but there it is…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Are you trying to usurp edvest1’s “stupidest post of the year” award by any chance? You sound exactly like him.</p>
<p>First, if you pay any attention, afruff is anything but a liberal. Anarchist would be the best description. Second, lots of liberals are as appalled by Wright’s statements as conservatives. The difference is, many of the liberals are capable of seeing that there is in fact some substance to what Wright said, despite all the other drivel he included in his sermon.</p>
<p>I’m floored we haven’t moved on past this though. Like, really people. Does anyone actually think this is a substantive issue, or are you all just railing on it for fun?</p>
<p>@1of42</p>
<p>“Does anyone actually think this is a substantive issue, or are you all just railing on it for fun?”</p>
<p>I think it is pretty substantive that the majority of people do not repudiate the evil things perpetrated by people of this country.</p>
<p>You know what I was talking about.</p>