<p>SomeOldGuy: Interesting. Yes, I suppose there is a somewhat false dichotomy with this issue. I am, by the way, in the Schreyer Honors at Penn State and can personally attest to their dedication to provide a holistic education. (My apologies now if I broke some unwritten posting rule–I merely wanted a parental perspective on this issue.)</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: “Your question almost sounds as though you’re challenging the idea that anyone should spend a lot of money on education when there are cheaper options.” I’m sorry if I posed a somewhat loaded question. Of course–my intention is not to condemn your personal beliefs or belittle anyone who, as you say, “can’t think of a better way to spend it [money].” I think that’s great, actually. I have to say though–as someone had to choose between a pricier, liberal college (Bucknell) vs Penn State for engineering, I just wanted to see if we could assign a “value” to a liberal arts education. In other words, happiness levels aside, do you think that the “extra benefits” justify the cost?</p>
<p>Poetgrl: “Both have value”…“this does not make a liberal arts degree worthless.” I agree. As someone who’s pursuing both engineering and music (yes I know, not strictly liberal arts, but close enough) I’ve really come to appreciate how valuable non-vocational studies can be. For example, improvising a solo requires creativity and synthesis; solving real-world problems (no “back of the book answer”) requires creativity and synthesis. I’m just curious–do you think that we can assign a value–in money–to this “worth”?</p>
<p>I think the problem with the LAC vs. big state university discussions on this site is that so few posters actually have experienced what great LACs offer. OP, it’s interesting that you are in the honors college at Penn State since it and others in large universities were modeled after small LACs. So, perhaps some of the good things about your experience there is a window into the LAC experience. My husband and I both went to large, state universities (one of us went to Penn State). It was what we could afford, and we both have done well. But we’ve sent our kids to selective LACs. There is a difference. But it’s about the educational and personal experience - not the pay check waiting at the end. That is a luxury, but one we think has been worth the price.</p>
<p>Our state schools end up being more expensive then the LAC’s…just depends on the kid I guess. </p>
<p>thatsall-to add to that, a LOT of posters here think that everyone that goes to a LAC graduates with a degree in “Liberal Arts” too-and don’t get that LAC have engineering, or other STEM majors as well. I know of one person that actually has a diploma that says her degree is “Liberal Arts”.</p>
<p>For engineering? A good state school (like Penn St) is often preferred over an LAC. They have more resources and tend to produce grads who are ready to work. My other half is an engineer… owns the firm actually… nearby firms feel the same way as everyone I can think of right now got their undergrad at Penn St or Va Tech. We’re in PA, so demographics assist in our schools of choice. In other areas schools like GA Tech or Purdue would also beat any LAC for our preferences if looking at a stack of applications.</p>
<p>If you were talking some other major, then you might have a debate, but in our experience, not with engineering.</p>
<p>Sometimes students who choose an LAC even though it is pricier than Penn State do so in order to access the types of perks that are given to Schreyer students but not to other Penn State students, because they were not admitted to Schreyer and Schreyer is difficult to enter after freshman year. </p>
<p>There is also a concern that Schreyer requires a relatively high GPA (3.6?) to maintain honors college eligibility. This can be a problem for some students in majors with tougher grading, as well as for hard-working students in any major who are also academic risk takers. This would not be an issue at a school such as Bucknell or Swarthmore. </p>
<p>Students also worry about social fit in the larger Penn State community, especially if they are in a smaller major. This is somewhat less of an issue for STEM majors, including engineering majors, where lots of students seem to self select.</p>
<p>Whether it is worth the money for a student fully capable of completing an engineering major to major in a liberal arts area such as math or physics, let alone Japanese or philosophy or history, at Schreyer, an LAC, or elsewhere, is another question entirely.</p>
<p>Also, many LAC’s have cooperating agreements with engineering programs and students can complete a 3/2, 4/1 or even just do 4 years at a LAC for their engineering degree.</p>
<p>I think your questions indicate a mature analysis, Fischerman. It is actually an investigation that each high school senior should engage, so please dont mind if it engenders weariness for some.</p>
<p>That said, you highlighted passion vs. economic security. Please note that I did not mean to insinuate that they are mutually exclusive ideals. Many in my age group are thoroughly engaged in their lifes work and have enjoyed economic security; however, your peers and, perhaps, you will in all likelihood need to not find but actively pursue not just one passion, but perhaps many. In other words, it will be more likely that you will be required to reinvent yourself many times during your career path. This is not a cause for concern, but merely a changing landscape. It also underscores the value of including liberal arts, perhaps.</p>
<p>If you want to expand your examination, you may want to also include how on-line education will further change the face, and particularly the value, of college education. It will be interesting to watch how adaptive these institutions will be.</p>
<p>If you’ve had some liberal arts, you may recognize the Penn State comment as a straw man argument:)</p>
<p>My son is in a similar situation. Has been accepted to both LAC with engineering programs and a few prominent tech schools. We still haven’t decided…but I will say that it’s tricky when you have a tech-minded kid with a liberal arts “heart”…if that makes any sense. We’ve toured and spent time at both…and there is definately, from our experience anyway, a big and noticable difference in the type of student that each attracts. At first glance, my son said tech schools were out…he didn’t feel “smart enough”, or serious enough a student to thrive there. It wasn’t until he did a few football recruiting events at the tech schools that he realized that there are kids there just like him. It’s tricky!</p>