<p>“So. If I went and stole a hundred bucks from somebody’s house, but never got caught and was never “adjudged by a court of law,” it wouldn’t be illegal? Huh.”</p>
<p>Under the law, you’d be innocent.</p>
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<p>Why should she get back all the taxes she paid? Did she not benefit from any tax-funded services for the last 20 years? Social Security is not right. There may not be any for me to collect, either. Do I get all of Social Security taxes that I paid returned to me if there is none for me to collect in my old age?</p>
<p>That’s exactly what has happened to Black males in the U.S. for the past 70 years.</p>
<p>My mother is thankful, for them, and for the undocumented workers, without whom she wouldn’t have any Social Security.</p>
<p>It is ILLEGAL to be in this country as an illegal alien and ILLEGAL to be using a false social security number. As with all illegal things, the risk is getting caught. This young lady was caught.</p>
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<p>That is a good point. If we’re returning SSI payments to illegal immigrants, then we ought to give them back to Black US males, as well.</p>
<p>I wonder if she ever knew she wasn’t an American citizen. After all, from age 2, she grew up in this country. Her parents may have been the ones to get her the fraudulent SS card, and she may not have known it was fraudulent. She may not even have realized her parents were illegal.</p>
<p>At 2, she should have known she was committing an illegal act. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Northstarmom, you are right. Many kids here in our area have no idea that they are illegal. It is not always something that is discussed, and around here there are so many that are illegal that it is not considered a big deal. Until you get into trouble with the law and your ID does not pan out.</p>
<p>As to returning SS payments, if those calculations are to be done, perhaps all of the costs that were rendered in terms of services that the woman got that she should not have gotten, should be returned as well.</p>
<p>If Angel Martinez has any complaints about being deported she should take them to her parents who disobeyed our laws and put her in the position of being deported. </p>
<p>If she is found guilty of social security fraud, she will have the opportunity to enjoy our free prision food and housing before being deported. I really don’t want someone committing social security fraud in American. Get rid of her either way. </p>
<p>There are a lot of federal laws I don’t want to comply with but I do. It is not too much to ask for her parents to comply with immigration laws and her deportion is one of those consequences, it is not the government’s problem.</p>
<p>Re Post 79:</p>
<p>I know that (re The Alien Act, etc.). That still does not necessarily imply what the FF’s decisions would have been should they have perceived a need to exercise some measure of control, given different circumstances. In their world, they perceived it was not a need, nor advisable. For example, that’s why constitutional amendments regarding other neglected and/or changeable matters came into being. Some of the FF’s even after the document was complete, began to have second thoughts about some of its provisions. It’s a historical document containing both universal, timeless ideals and principles pertinent to a time period. </p>
<p>Being ‘an originalist’ is a historical fallacy.</p>
<p>Razor, if she did not know about her fake SS number, I am sure she has discussed it with her parents. Not much she can do to hurt them much more. I am sure this is a heartbreak for the family and for her. The situation is bad enough without getting punitive. I really hurt for all involved. The problem is that SS fraud was committed, and there will some consequence for that. As an illegal caught committing a crime, deportation is also going to an issue for all involved in the situation.</p>
<p>ROTFL @ Cottonwood’s post…</p>
<p>Good point that she might not have known about her illegal status and fraudulent SS#</p>
<p>I read the article and no one has mentioned the part that bugs me the most. They were having subsidised clinic workers write doctor’s excuses in phony names. </p>
<p>To me that means that she and others are using free or subsidised medical services. That is a huge part of the current medical crisis in our country. If I only had to pay for my care and what it costs, I could pay that, it is covering all the costs that are not paid to hospitals for medicaid that are tough to cover.</p>
<p>For example, a lifetime ago one of my now college kids needed stitches on the weekend, an ER visit was $600 for 5 stitches. It did not cost that much for the stitches, an office visit could have done it for $50, but there were no urgent cares back then. The extra cost is for all the people who use the ER as a medical provider and don’t pay the cost of their care.</p>
<p>I am paying $500 a month for a $7000 deductible, yet illegal aliens are using government funded clinics and running up my costs. That is the part of this that really gets to me. </p>
<p>When I go to another country to access their services, cheaper Rx, etc., I pay full price cash to walk in, they do not offer me their great basic care. </p>
<p>It also seems that perhaps if one is illegal, one might choose to stay beneath the radar and avoid using govt services like free clinics.</p>
<p>BTW, I also hate the idea of using any personal medical records to link to anything- that is scary, too much lie big brother!</p>
<p>Can someone post a link to the article? I can’t find it on the News &Observor site.</p>
<p>[newsobserver.com</a> | Immigration arrest raises concerns](<a href=“http://www.newsobserver.com/news/immigration/story/1158853.html]newsobserver.com”>http://www.newsobserver.com/news/immigration/story/1158853.html)</p>
<p>You raise a good point, somemom, that is beyond the scope of this discussion but certainly contributes to the emotions that go with it. My sister was just billed $800 for walking into an ER on a Saturday midnight, for a bladder infection that needed an antibiotic.</p>
<p>My friend hired an illegal immigrant nanny who was pregnant at the same time as me. She went to the county health services office, where the person working there told her to write on the form that she was unemployed, so that she could get all of her costs covered (fraud). We delivered at the same hospital. I got a bill for $2,000 after my insurance paid the rest.</p>
<p>"But Martinez’s arrest in mid-July raised concerns that the county may be examining confidential medical information. Johnson told reporters that Martinez got prenatal care at the department. He also said the tip about her immigration status came from a county employee and was related to the health department investigation…</p>
<p>At the least, Hoke said, Alamance officials are probably discouraging people from using health services. Hoke said federal and state regulations guarantee health services regardless of immigration status.
And he said that immunizations, prenatal care and treatment for contagious diseases are important to all.</p>
<p>“Even if they’re not excluding folks, you can set a tone where you scare people off,” Hoke said."</p>
<p>Considering the high cost of medical care for people who lack insurance, I understand why illegal immigrants would choose to use public health facilities.</p>
<p>Would anyone prefer that they not get medical care and therefore spread disease? Would it have been preferable that Martinez have gotten no prenatal care for her child, who is, BTW, an American citizen?</p>
<p>I think that there should be a relatively easy way that illegals who have been law abiding could become legal immigrants. Compared to many parts of the world, the U.S. is not particularly crowded, and I believe the country is still in need of the benefit of the work ethic and creativity of immigrants.</p>
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<p>Of course not! But if they are not here, then they are not contributing to the destruction of our healthcare system, are they?</p>
<p><<in southern=“” mexico=“” and=“” guatemala,=“” they=“” see=“” their=“” land,=“” which=“” they’ve=“” worked=“” for=“” centuries,=“” expropriated=“” by=“” u.s.=“” backed=“” multinationals=“” to=“” graze=“” cattle=“” our=“” hamburgers.=“”>></in></p>
<p>Not so in Guatemala, to my knowledge. (Probably more Brazil.) But the actual story there is even worse.</p>
<p>In Guatemala, almost all of the arable land has been held by large landowners, including both Guatemalans and companies such as Boston-based United Fruit, for hundreds of years. Many Guatemalans were literally bound to the land, like serfs, and required to work for whomever owned the land for free for several months out of the year. ( I don’t know about you, but I’d call that slavery.) Most of the arable land in production is used to grow commercial crops such as sugar cane, coffee, and bananas, and the country was–and still is, unless I’m mistaken–a net importer of food. The same companies hold significant amounts of arable land in reserve. In other words, nothing is grown on it. The second legally-elected president of Guatemala, who attempted to put in place very modest land reform scheme that would have purchased some of this reserve land from the owners at the tax evaluation price–more than they had paid for it, I might add, and including some of his own family’s land–and distributed it to Guatemalans so that they could grow food, was overthrown in a US-led coup incited by United Fruit using the services of a man who is considered the creator of modern PR–Bernays–who succeeded in convincing the US Congress and other opinion makers that this president was a “Communist.” He was no more a communist that you or I. This was the beginning of a long civil war, in which at least 300,000 Guatemalans were killed, largely by US-backed death squads. (Of course, as in Nicaragua and elsewhere, US citizens who supported the native populace were also murdered.)</p>
<p>When Jimmy Carter came into office, he cut off funding to the death squads. When Reagan came into office, he restored it, and the majority of the deaths occurred in the first three years of his administration. A peace treaty that stopped the killing was negotiated with the leadership of Bill Clinton, and he is widely admired there.</p>
<p>We should hang our heads in shame over what has been done in our name and with our money in those countries. The reality is well known outside the US and available to anyone who is willing to do a little reading and confront things that are uncomfortable. But don’t believe me. Do some googling and look it up. If you are a right winger and not inclined to believe me, google Father Stanley Rother and read about one Catholic priest murdered in Guatemala, and think about whether HE was a communist.</p>
<p><<this woman=“” is=“” evidently=“” smart;=“” the=“” story=“” states=“” that=“” she=“” was=“” an=“” honor=“” student=“” at=“” her=“” north=“” carolina=“” high=“” school.=“” thus,=“” should=“” have=“” been=“” diligent=“” enough=“” to=“” try=“” legalize=“” status=“” once=“” became=“” adult.=“”>></this></p>
<p>For heaven’s sake, in order to do so she would have to expose her PARENTS AND FAMILY to deportation!! For all those who keep asking why she didn’t try to regularize the situation, what more needs to be said?</p>
<p>I recall when people who were fleeing from the death squads in Central America–death squads that were TRAINED in the US (School of the Americas, anyone?) and FUNDED with our taxpayer dollars–were unable to obtain political asylum here, since of course no gov’t that WE supported could be unjust and literally murderous! (Pause to note that WE supported and armed Saddam Hussein as a “counter” t0 Iran.) Meanwhile Russian Jews were flooding into the country since of course we all knew that the Russian gov’t were the Evil Empire.</p>
<p>I actually feel that we ought to me somewhat stricter about illegal immigration, but I also have a HUGE problem with the double/triple standard of the US gov’t and the rank hypocrisy that has consistently been demonstrated. I tend to agree with Silverlady, who said that laws making anyone born in the US a citizen is part of the problem (that’s a choice on the part of earlier generations that reflects a reality that no longer exists). I think that we need to consider having a “guest worker” status, as some EU countries do.</p>