<p>“Apparently in 60-something percent of the studied cases, once a criminal, always a criminal… I’m not a hard-liner on this stuff but to suggest that criminals deserve a break is just nuts. Who gave the victims a break? I’m hoping you devote equal energies to helping victims of the crimes for those you are trying to free?”</p>
<p>If you lock up a criminal with other criminals, and don’t do anything to rehabilitate him, why would you be surprised if he reoffended?</p>
<p>YES! Help the victims of crime. Half the point of the Criminal Justice Treatment Alternative is that a felon who becomes a productive citizen is in a position to make restitution for his crime. Taht never happens when he is incarcerated.</p>
<p>Some posters have mentioned that this library employee might not have known she was an illegal and also that perhaps she didn’t know her ss# was stolen, since her parents may have given it to her. What about registering to vote? Wouldn’t her parents have helpfully warned her not to register to vote? Or is she voting illegally, too? </p>
<p>Why is better for mini’s mother’s ss to be funded by withholding ss taxes from an illegal rather than a citizen?</p>
<pre><code>Could one of you helpful posters provide the link to Missypie’s family’s stolen ss#
</code></pre>
<p>saga thread for those that may have missed it?</p>
<p>“To imply that immigrants (legal or not) only “give” and don’t take seems naiive.”</p>
<p>^^ Not just seems. It is. Naive and false. But it’s part of the rhetoric of those who fancy themselves “liberal.” And what is false rhetoric? Propaganda.</p>
<p>EDIT: And I do consider myself a liberal, most definitely. But such ignorance does not define liberalism, and I’ll have no part of it.</p>
<p>All this hypothetical stuff is irrelevant. We are talking about someone who, legally, shouldn’t be here in this country…regardless of circumstances. We are talking about a federal crime here. Not stealing bread. Come on. I’ll be the first to admit I would have more tolerance for a citizen than an illegal. It’s a shame we are having to waste tax dollars dealing with this.</p>
<p>“Well, would any of that influence your thinking if he was stealing bread, or medicine for his sick child?”
“Does the hypothetical question I asked make you uncomfortable?”</p>
<p>I live in a state that has a horrific crime rate. It is also very easy to get medicaid, WiC, food stamps, etc. I have NEVER seen, in crime reports that list many crimes throughout the state, ANY arrests made for stealing medications for children or food for a child. Now there are plenty of break-ins and robberies, but what is stolen is generally electronics, jewlry, etc.</p>
<p>People have the opportunity for education, scholarships, etc. If they choose a life of crime, they know the risks and the possibility for incarceration. That is their choice. </p>
<p>I have no pity for those who rob, burgularize, maim, rape or kill others. Or for those that steal identities, and ruin people’s credit ratings. Or many other “white collar crimes.” You do the crime, you spend the time. I also don’t believe in shortening sentences, unless one is proven to have not done the crime. Too many repeats. Too much crime. Get these people out of society.</p>
<p>Speaking only for myself, Hunt, No your hypothetical question doesn’t make me uncomfortable. If someone was stealing away food for my family, and was breaking in my house stealing only bread because he wanted to feed it to his family, here’s how it would affect me:
I’d feel less safe in my home, and would still want the illegal act prosecuted. This fellow is guilty of the burglary. I’d have no objection to his facts(as you presented them hypothetically) taken into account- his choice of theft and reasons behind it. In your scenario, perhaps the minimal sentencing would be appropriate.
How your example might apply to the op’s example(the reason for this thread) as nearly as I can guess would be that the library worker entered our home(country) illegally and was stealing from society only bread to eat herself. She wasn’t stealing extra things such as welfare, or any other gov’t <em>help</em>, medical care, escaping any taxes such as city utilities, city schools, roadways, and on and on… In that case, with your example as a guideline, I’d recommend the minimum punishment for her. In this case, making an illegal intruder in my home get out is certainly a minimal punishment. Similarly, I think making the illegal immigrant get out is also the minimum punishment for her. </p>
<p>In real life however, I doubt that a burglar ever breaks in merely to steal bread to take home to feed his family.</p>
<p>Well, the analogy would be better if burglars broke into your home and left a toddler in your basement and that was the only place she had ever been and you had a refrigerator full of food and water in that basement. She ate the food and drank the water.</p>
<p>Hunt - I often think the same thing but have been told that it is really being more compassionate to jail and deport people. I have given up on that. I immediately felt terrible for that woman and thought of how scared she must be for herself and her child and her family. It is just so sad to me.</p>
<p>“Well, the analogy would be better if burglars broke into your home and left a toddler in your basement and that was the only place she had ever been and you had a refrigerator full of food and water in that basement. She ate the food and drank the water.”</p>
<p>And then started to work to repay you for it. (and that’s when you caught her.)</p>
<p>I will be safer, more secure, and wealthier when she’s gone (even if my mother, who depends on her for Social Security, won’t be.)</p>
<p>well, cartera ,lets assume from your analogy that those who broke in didn’t steal anything(as briefly mentioned in my post 148) from me(society) but only left a toddler to steal from me. Just the same, when I discovered the toddler, I wouldn’t say the child could stay, and I wouldn’t want society forcing me to keep the child. Or, if that child reached adulthood and then I caught her- and she said “ok you caught me. From now on, I’ll stay here, but I’ll pay my own way”. No. I wouldn’t permit that. I’d make her go.
remember, breaking into my home only to steal bread to give to thief’s family was Hunt’s hypothetical.</p>
<p>mini - that job may have been her downfall. If she had been washing dishes at the local country club or mucking stalls at the local riding stable, she probably would still have her job.</p>
<p>A couple in our area had their house burn down. The family lost everything. They were homeless along with their kids. During the course of fighting the fire a fireman died. After the fact it came out they were growing pot plants in the basement and the fire was caused by an overloading of the electrical system caused by the lights used to grow the plants. Do I feel for the kids who are now homeless and will soon be parentless if convicted of a crime? Of course. Do I feel sorry for the parents who knowingly commited the crime, no. Would I feel any differently if it turned out these people were illegals, no. I would still feel sorry for the children and I would still hope that the parents rot in jail for the rest of whatever (or get deported if illegal). </p>
<p>Life isn’t fair. We have to follow rules we don’t make. We are put in situations that suck. This girls parents (presuming she wasn’t aware it was a stolen SS#) jobbed her. It’s a sticky situation and none of us has the right answer but to suggest the people have no compassion because they want the laws upheld is small-minded. Plenty of people have paid for crimes when they didn’t intentionally commit them.</p>
<p>I keep looking for more info about the OP story. Everyone is writing about the library worker, and not the rest of the family. One report mentioned that she called her sister and said she was afraid, and worried for her son. Is the sister also in the US? Does she have a legit SS number? Where are the parents who brought her here in the first place? Why is the library worker the only one in trouble? Is her husband legal or not? If he isn’t, is he in trouble, too? Is she the only one in trouble because she’s the only one with SS fraud? Is that what the story is really about?</p>
<p>The bit of press I could find is clearly on the side of the woman, lambasting the enforcement agencies. I just feel like we are not getting all the facts.</p>
<p>I’m having trouble, Cartera, with your analogy. If the toddler and her parents successfully live in my basement for 20 years, then the right thing to do is let them stay there because they’ve made a success of it and are at home there? </p>
<p>She seems to have been at least marginally successful here - has a job, goes to school, rents a mobile home and owns four cars. She probably is not the biggest threat to homeland security. I personally would be willing to look at some alternatives. On the other hand, are we supposed to track them all down, then make a list of all those here illegally and using false SS numbers and accepting benefits, etc, then prioritize them to which ones we should hold accountable? Won’t there always be extenuating circumstances and sob stories? Always someone else to blame? Do we never draw any lines?</p>
<p>“It’s a sticky situation and none of us has the right answer but to suggest the people have no compassion because they want the laws upheld is small-minded.”</p>
<p>Gee, I’ve been mixed up–I thought the small-minded ones were the ones who wanted to throw the book at the law-breaker without any consideration of the person’s actual culpability or the consequences to that person.</p>