Life in Retirement - We've made it! Now what? (No investment discussions permitted)

Parent Cafe
921

We took out our LTC policy a bit over 20 years ago in our mid-late 30s. That seemed young, but in retrospect we were lucky because the policies were better back then (more limited exclusions etc). We had a one time bump of 20% in premiums a decade later when the insurers all woke up to these policies being underpriced. But we have a 5% annual increase in the daily payment baked in. So we are now paying ~$100 per person per month for a policy with a current (uncapped) benefit of $400 per day, whether cared for at home or in a facility. By the time we need it (if ever) that benefit will probably be $1000+ per day (though of course inflation will erode the value somewhat).

And because we are self-employed the premium is tax deductible (it’s treated like a health insurance premium) so the net cost is very low. I think the tax deductibility of premiums while you are working (if you are able to take advantage of that) is one of the biggest advantages of starting early. The only comparable way of saving tax free for these costs would be an HSA.

I’m surprised anyone would suggest that starting a policy in your early 50s is too early. But by that point it should be clearer if you will have enough assets to self-insure, which is a reasonable position to take for many wealthier people.

922

Bottom line, from the article:

It’s a gift to our kids…

And doesn’t need to come with a million dollar (or more) buy-in for luxury living. The “gift” is taking care of your future healthcare/living needs so your children don’t feel the need to deal with it.

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923

I see the post has been edited now, but not everyone sees caring for a parent as something to “deal” with. In many cultures, extended families live together and care for each other. Grandparents for grandchildren, children for their parents as they age. The book “Being Mortal” by Atul Gawande explores the end of life relationships and arrangements in society. It’s a very good read.

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924

Was it really “only” a $5,000 buy-in? That seems incredibly inexpensive compared to the couple of places I’ve heard of, but I’m no expert.

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925

But read the monthly cost:

they had to pay an upfront buy-in of $5,000 for the “distinctive AL” property they are moving to with a monthly all-inclusive fee of $7,600/month

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926

We are grateful my folks were in a CCRC because they needed a lot of care in their last years of life. Our neighborhood has become fairly geriatric. The people across the street—the H is 90 and his W is 87. The people next door to them have a woman in her 80s. Right next door to us is a couple in their 70s. A couple in their 60s recently bought the house on the other side of us. Behind our house, the couple is mid-60s.

Our next door neighbors in 70s originally put themselves on waitlist for the CCRC my folks had lived in but decided to take themselves off the list and just hire help—yardmen and house cleaner.

My older sister said she wants to go the CCRC my folks were in when she’s in her 70s—she’s almost 70 now. We shall see.

927

We looked at a place in town that is almost 10k a month for a 2BR/2BA with a low/mid-six-figure buy-in. The buy-in gets higher with the guarantee that your heirs get a larger portion of that buy-in back upon death.

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928

The buy-in for the nice CCRC my folks lived in has increased from $1mm to $2mm for a 2 bedroom place and I believe estate now only gets 85% instead of 90% of buy-in after 2nd to die. Folks also have to pay substantial monthly fees which include weekly washing of linens and light vacuuming, plus the equivalent of one dinner/day. Everything else is extra, especially if you need companion care or higher levels of assistance.

929

For 2 people that all-inclusive monthly cost sounds pretty darn good to me.

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930

Re: CCRC….where I live, there really aren’t a lot to choose from. But there are some areas of the country with much larger senior populations, and I’m guessing a larger selection of CCRC, and over 55 housing, and AL. Perhaps in those places there are more options, the prices might be better?

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931

I have a friend who thinks – and says! – I’m nuts for thinking about this so early. Oh, well. :woman_shrugging:

I have two reasons for kicking this around right now.

One, it’s my nature. I like to gather facts long before I need them so that when decision time comes, I’m ready to jump. Some people probably think I’m impulsive as I can move so quickly on major decisions, but they act like I was just presented with the scenario. They don’t see the mental and sometimes physical legwork I’ve put into making a decision. I can give you a college-related example if you want! I just love considering options and weighing the differences. And waitlists are not a joke.

Two, making the decision to live in a CCRC is paradigm-breaking in my family. I know that doing what has never been done before will be difficult in some ways, even though dh and I are committed to this path. My siblings, for instance, who never lived more than 10 minutes from my parents, will be sad that we are leaving the state and likely won’t see each other again once we move. We took care of our parents in their home; moving to a facility, no matter how nice, always has been frowned upon in my family. Gathering all the info now, in a non-pressure environment, will make our ultimate decision much easier when the time comes and we can start preparing the extended family for what comes next for us. The idea of never/rarely seeing our extended families likely will keep us here longer than we think.

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932

My research has shown the places we’ve visited near ds1 are SO MUCH less expensive than the place we like here. Maybe it’s a Midwest thing?

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933

My husband and many of our friends are older (or much older) than me. Our discussions are much like the downsizing thoughts you mentioned.

However I think the CC crowd is full of good researchers, thinking about possible future scenarios. (And with a variety of threads about supporting our parents, lots of example that make me ponder easing the burden on our childrens someday.). This week my husband actually drove by a local nonprofit over-62 co-op that was happily described by a recent visitor at church. We actually did not go inside, though someday we might visit open house at this or CCCC. As we’ve often said, “house shopping is lots more fun when you actually are NOT in the market to buy near term”. (LOL - I also have made the same comment about dresses… oh, especially MOB/MOG dresses).

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934

I’ve read that and agree it’s a great read as is everything he’s written.

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935

The place they are moving to is a beautiful twelve-acre campus with separate IL, AL, memory care, and hospice facilities. The buy-in is a one-time cost that covers their move from one area of the campus to another if/when that becomes necessary. The apartment/room rental cost in each location will be the same as the current cost in the location they are leaving, which can increase annually the same as any rental. The large one-bedroom/one-bath they are moving to is $4,200/mo. The additional $3,400/month is based on the level of each of their assessed care needs for a monthly total of $7,600. This includes all assistance, meals (kitchen open all day, no set meal times for the always-available menu, but they have a chef who prepares the weekly special menu), weekly laundry/housekeeping, utilities, cable/wifi, transport to/from doctor appointments, 24/7 nursing staff, onsite PT, etc. The building includes a movie theatre (popcorn all day), always-open beverage/coffee cafe, library, game room, full-service salon/spa, onsite commissary, regular transport to shopping/groceries/events, and lovely grounds that host regular social activities.

Outside of any event that immediately changes their care need, their ongoing steady-state care level will be reassessed every 90 days to determine if adjustments need to be made that will affect cost.

We are satisfied with this arragement.

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936

For the record, I do t think you’re nuts. :wink:

You’re all giving me lots of food for thought. I a barely adjust to retirement (and actually haven’t retired fully) - I guess I don’t navigate life changes with gusto!

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937

Oh how fun—Shikoku is lovely, enjoy your trip!

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938

My two cents: you’re very young and I would be surprised to hear of anyone your age thinking it was something to do soon-ish!

My other two cents: it is easier to think about it in advance and scope out what some different options could be several/many years before you might need it. Depending on health that might mean when you’re 75 you look around and think about options, and if moving to a community may be one of them. And if that is the case, to visit different communities, and consider what that entails, and to put your name on a waitlist for the future.

Every family that I’ve known that didn’t think about it in advance has had great stress and worse outcomes when they’ve waited until “something happened” and then were forced to move abruptly into a place that they never would have chosen if they’d had the opportunity to choose, but it was the only place that had openings that you could move in to right away.

When it is an immediate need situation, those are typically due to an accident, a fall, a stroke or other debilitating medical event, or the death of one spouse who was providing additional care. People that move to communities under those circumstances tend to not have the ability to join the community: they are quite ill, immobilized, grieving, or all of the above. And that greatly affects their mental and physical health and they can decline rapidly.

We have family friends in which one of their parents was having memory issues and their spouse was shouldering an increasing load in ways that crept up gradually and seemed doable. One day that person tripped, fell, and did not recover, and it became immediately apparent that the parent with some memory issues could not live safely alone. And so an extremely rushed placement was made (during a time of devastating grief) to a facility that they never would have chosen amongst the many options in the city, because all of the wonderful non-profit communities have waiting lists of 1-3 years. It was brutal for everyone in their family.

I mentioned up thread that one of my parents can’t live independently, and my parents moved earlier than they truly “needed” to. The most significant reason was so that both parents could really join the community and build a life there, and that if/when something happens to the spouse that cares for the other, that the surviving spouse would be surrounded by friends and supports and there would not be an abrupt and terrible transition; they’d continue living in their home.

There are also other options! And that may include living in a home that is fully accessible if one were to need to use a wheelchair for a few weeks or a few years. And in which different types of supplemental care could be arranged. It’s useful to see what those options could be far before you actually need them, and when you feel comfortable evaluating all the different choices.

But you’re only 65 and 69! And that’s a question I would think is for down the line :slight_smile:

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939

Time and age have a way of creeping up on you.

Maybe it’s like going bankrupt, slowly and then all of a sudden.

We were at my in laws today. It’s concerning, upsetting and sad all at the same time. They are almost 90 and 89.

I don’t think they should be in their house, I think they would enjoy moving to a CCRC but as I’ve discussed in the parents helping parents, they are stubbornly staying put. They know there will be a crisis and they still won’t change. Putting a railing on the front porch was a big negotiation. They are making it all a huge mess.

I have friends who are 15 years older than me. They don’t seem to see the aging coming fast. They are nearing 80 and don’t see and aren’t making really any changes to their situation.

They will be 85 before you know it and then they will confront the reality. But before then, they will pretend that time stands still.

Just like my in laws.

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940

I appreciate this. I mostly like that you called me/us young. Lol! :grinning_face:

I guess I often think of everyone on CC being “around” my age - though I know there are some youngsters :wink: and “older-sters”

And as I said, so far :crossed_fingers:t3:, I don’t know anyone expressing thoughts about these types of moves. But also maybe they are but I’m not aware.

Carry on, I’ll continue to learn!