Life isn't always fair...so get over it!

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Just goes to show that you don’t actually know what you think you do!</p>

<p>You are wrong about that for a very good reason. Staten Island is larger than Manhattan (surprised?) and has very few schools, so they cover the largest geographic areas of the five boroughs, which means that almost all of the public schools are very economically diverse.</p>

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God intended for Staten Island to be part of New Jersey. At the very least we should be independent and have tried for decades.</p>

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I think that’s the problem. The entire city isn’t comprised of people you know of. I’ve been parenting and advocating since the 80s and can speak to the changes, and I can tell you that many more kids travel outside the boroughs now than ever before. Heck, Staten Island Tech is the “hot” school this year and it wasn’t even there in the 80s.</p>

<p>“there are very few NYC public schools that lack economic diversity.”</p>

<p>I would disagree in just one sense – there are un-diverse schools made up entirely of poor kids. But you are right in the sense that there are few that are free of working-class and poor kids.</p>

<p>Re another post, I’m pretty sure that no kids, rich or poor, public or private, are enjoying the fruits of their own labor in school. It’s the kids we need to focus on, however meritorious or worthless their parents may be.</p>

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Thank you for saying that better than I did! That’s exactly what I meant.</p>

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Not quite true. In the last few years, the kids (themselves) have raised more than $10,000 as part of Mitzvah projects. It’s taken a lot of work on their parts and I applaud them. Local businesses have really stepped up, too, though. BUt the kids did fundraise to them.</p>

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<p>With the exception of a few shrinking working-class enclaves…a common complaint I’ve been hearing about Staten Island is that it’s getting too expensive/inconvenient to live there given the increase in already high real estate prices, the high costs of commuting if one uses a car(tolls), and the long commute into the city. </p>

<p>HS classmates from Staten Island…especially if they lived in the more remote sections needed to get up as early as 5 am each morning just to ensure they arrived on time for their 8 am “0 period” lab/class or homeroom at around 9 am using the car/SIRT, SI Ferry(wasn’t free back then), and then the subway. </p>

<p>Moreover, while they may be from NYC, their mannerisms tended to remind me more of those I’ve observed from many residents from upper-middle class suburban New Jersey/Long Island towns…including relatives. </p>

<p>There were several instances where I and other classmates from the other 4 boroughs had to step in so they wouldn’t be easily targeted for muggings from the rowdy neighborhood kids on the old Lower East Side/Alphabet city or accidentally provoking fights because they said something racially/socio-economically insensitive to immigrant/non-White and/or working/lower-middle class classmates and residents living around our high school. </p>

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<p>True…though that’s mainly because before the changes…unless you were admitted to a NYC Specialized High School/niche programs like La Guardia…you were stuck in your zoned neighborhood public school…for better or worse.</p>

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I call bull on this. As I said earlier, you really don’t know what you are talking about. Staten Island is very racially diverse. Did you know that we have the largest Liberian-expat community in the world? Did you know that we have some of the best Sri Lankan food in the city, have a very large and varied Hispanic community. Let’s leave it at that because I’m not really interested in your fantasies.</p>

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<p>Bay, I will refer you back to my post #46 which you, apparently didn’t read. In none of my posts have I said that parents give to schools to gain advantages for their child. Nowhere did I say that.</p>

<p>Thank you, Poetgirl for your astute comments. You know, I never really thought about it but I guess teachers get so used to making due with tights budgets that we ARE grateful when anyone gives us help of any kind. We want the best for our students so it is just human nature to be appreciative, I guess. I also thank the custodian when he washes my floor! Lol. I know it’s his job but I guess I’m a polite girl. The difference is, that parents don’t need to give so when they do, we acknowledge it. I do see the perversity in the idea of thanking anyone for giving me the tools to do the job that I am paid for. Weird but its just the way it is.</p>

<p>I spend significant amounts of money on my classroom every year. I stop counting after 500 dollars or so. Nobody thanks me :)</p>

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<p>MiamiDap, WHAT!!! Where are THOSE teachers working because I want a piece of that action. Where I am, nobody is making 6 figures, I can assure you, and teachers, for the most part, need to work until 65.</p>

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<p>well, let me just say thank you, then, and leave it at that.</p>

<p>ETPR, please help me understand. This is an anonymous board, so I hope you can feel comfortable answering honestly.</p>

<p>When you say</p>

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<p>What exactly do you spend $500 on? (Can you give some examples). I’ve heard nearly every teacher say that, but not having kids in public school, I am at a loss to figure out what they spend it on. I’ve gone through and added up the total cost of required school supplies for each kid - usually it is $25. $500 should cover mandatory school supplies for 20 kids, and I sincerely hope you don’t have that many kids whose cheap parents won’t buy the mandatory supplies.</p>

<p>What do you spend the rest on? Is this things that are more optional like bulletin boards, streamers, or other classroom decorations? Or is it things that are more mandatory like paint, brushes, textbooks? Or lunch money for kids who don’t have lunch?</p>

<p>Some of my postings might have been more argumentive in the past and might have had a political bent. This one does not. I have heard that so many times, yet as an outsider, I have no idea what kinds of “supplies” teachers have to buy for students. I think many of us would appreciate your sharing some examples of what you’ve had to buy in the past.</p>

<p>Supplies sometimes supplied by the teacher:</p>

<p>Elementary school: Boxes of tissues, paper towels, wipes, anti bacterial gel/spray, paper, construction paper, graph paper, copier paper, art supplies such as paint, rulers, pencils, markers, index cards, crayons, ziplock baggies, protractors, compasses, calculators, scissors, staples, extra pencil sharpeners, paper clips, books for small library within the classroom, all bulletin board supplies, many science experiment supplies, constant supply of graham crackers or dry cereal or saltines or whatever for kids who show up without having eaten breakfast…</p>

<p>“Actually, most NYC kids I know of…even today attend public schools in their boroughs…”</p>

<p>-Not my grandkids, they are still in elementary and are going to Manhattan from Brooklyn. They are traveling with the bunch of their buddies, so there are many others. They are also going thru selection process choosing their JH. I was told that there are 5 JH schools available for them (or that s how many my granddaughter has chosen to apply), with some are more selective than others. The similar process is going on with HS’s. It is all different than what we have in other state. Kids go to school where they live and real estate tax rates vary a lot with better school districts paying anourmous real estate taxes (I believe that rates are much higher than in NYC ). The exception is private schools. You can even go to another state for private school. I have experience with both as my S. choose to go to publics and my D. went to all privates. She had few kids in her class of 33 in HS who travelled from another state on a daily basis or other far away places up to whole hour away one way.</p>

<p>Engineer,
Thanks for asking. I am on my way to work but I will post later about what I buy and why I buy it. It is an interesting issue and one I give a lot of thought to. I think it is also an issue that is more complex than it appears.</p>

<p>Did anybody mention the failing and privatization of the poor schools in Chicago and New York?</p>

<p>Engineer, there are a lot of things that i spend money on for my classroom. I should say that I am an elementary art teacher and that entails a lot of “stuff”, in particular because I have a school of nearly 700 students.
I have a budget for supplies (that would be consumables, not equipment, furniture, etc.) That budget is a dollar amount per child, per year. All of the materials that get used up during the school year come from that budget. Because I need so much of that, there is rarely enough left over to buy things like storage bins, portfolios, etc. It is also awkward to buys some stuff as it all has to go out to a school supply company and they don’t usually have some of the “odd” things that I use in class.<br>
The things I buy are sometimes because I run out of money in my budget, but often because it is something that I can’t get through the usual channels and it’s just easier to do it myself. If I need fresh sunflowers for a still life, I buy them. If I need aluminum foil for printmaking, I buy it.
My days are extremely hectic. If having color coded storage bins is going to help keep my kids organized and save me from a complete breakdown, I buy them. Things like soap, hand wipes, kleenex, and paper towels, paper towels, paper towels. The school only provide a very limited amount so I have to beg people to send them in. Beg them. Not because they are unwilling to help but because they have busy lives and forget.</p>

<p>When we do one of our special projects, many kids bring in specific theme based items to use. Some kids can’t afford them. I go buy them if I can.</p>

<p>Yes, some of the stuff is superfluous. Bulletin board stuff, etc. Again, usually in the interest of saving time so that I can attend to more important things than cutting out borders.</p>

<p>Here is why I think it’s a complicated issue. If you, as a citizen or parent, walked into a school classroom you would probably not have any way of knowing what “stuff” was purchased by the school system and what stuff came out of the teacher’s salary. You would see a well equipped classroom and think that the school was providing everything that the children need, when in fact, the teacher had purchased, or spent time soliciting for and accumulating many of the resources that are benefiting your child and helping to deliver a quality educational experience. This distortion (and of course the ratio would vary from teacher to teacher and school to school) contributes, IMO, to the discord between much of the public and the teaching profession. Why would a parent vote yes on a tax increase to fund education when their perception is skewed by misperceptions?</p>

<p>I also feel that the subtle and unspoken expectations that exist in terms of teachers going above and beyond the call of duty (whether it is by buying items for their classroom or in other ways) is a decidedly sexist phenomenon, but is never acknowledged as such. In what other profession would judgements be made based on how much you are willing to “give” to your client? Because the profession is largely female, it is my feeling that teachers are made to feel, early on, that they are less “mothering” or feminine or nurturing, if they are unwilling to keep giving until it hurts. Look at the teachers that you have experience with. How many of them were men? How many of those men would routinely spend out of pocket on supplies, etc? I’m not saying that the men don’t do it but my experience has been that it is much less than the women in the field and the teachers at the secondary levels are less likely to spend out of pocket than those at the elementary level. My opinion is that the teachers at the younger level are encouraged to be more nurturing than those at the upper levels. There are also fewer male teachers at the primary schools. The predominantly female atmosphere is more susceptible to the subtle pressure to mother the students.</p>

<p>It is hard, as a teacher who cares about her students, to reconcile these thoughts and observations with the daily struggle to make everything go smoothly and be affective in the classroom. As a result, I do what I have to do.</p>

<p>EPTR–</p>

<p>My kids are long past the elementary age, but I sooooo agree with what you just wrote, I wish you would save that last part and, when you have time, turn it into a creative non-fiction piece and sell it to a magazine. </p>

<p>Even just the fact that you are expected to be “grateful,” even just that word… you should write that up, really.</p>

<p>Poetgirl,
It’s funny but I was thinking the same thing. I will save it and maybe broaden it. I was even thinking that the subject would be a good one for someone wanting to do a research project on subtle forms of sexism in the workplace. Who would think it would exist in a female dominated field but it does and it is even practiced by female administrators. When I broach the subject with other teachers, many of them look at me like I’m nuts but I think that we have all been so indoctrinated that we have started to believe that there is something wrong with US rather than the field we work in.</p>