<p>My ex-BIL always resented that we had more “things” than he did. I remember trying to explain to him that if he saved an amount equal to his car payment for however many months he would have to pay off his car note, and didn’t get the car until he could pay cash, in the end he would have 16% (the then-prevailing rate) more toys. </p>
<p>He never understood the concept. </p>
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<p>We’ve been very fortunate and have been able to provide our kids with a lot of luxuries-private schools, international vacations, expensive summer programs, etc., so we’ve had to work hard to show them that what they have is not the norm and is not what they can expect from their futures unless they work hard and, like us, are fortunate. Some of what we’ve done is direct teaching-(showing them what a household budget looks like, talking about why we take and give hand-me-down clothes, discussing the fact that they should never assume their friends can afford what they can, even if it’s a slice of pizza or a movie ticket) some of it is through exposing them to families who are on the other side of the income scale, and some of it is conscious withholding of things we could have bought for them. For instance, we have told them since they were little that if they wanted a car they’d have to buy it themselves. One saved the vast majority of his birthday, Christmas, summer job money for 18 years to buy a car, the other decided she was fine without one for now.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, other than running a little short at school, our kids have never really known what it’s like to not have money. They know they’ll never be faced with the “If I don’t get a second job I won’t be able to pay my tuition bill next semester” situation and I worry that it makes them a little less hungry. I’ve seen a lot of rich kids who don’t have the fire in the belly necessary to succeed in the work world.</p>
<p>IMHO, it’s important that every young person experience the trio of crap-crappy apartment, crappy job, and crappy car. It makes one so much more appreciative of the better things in life when they become affordable.</p>
<p>Sending money on cars is one of the worse things to do with your money - a nice house, bought within ones means of course, will usually retain its value, vacations can bring a family together, and a child’s schooling choices can change a life, but a car? It’s loses value quickly and I wonder about anyone that is impressed by the car someone drives. If it has heated seats and doesn’t break down, I’m happy. People that truly love me do not care what car I drive.</p>
<p>We live in a very upper middle class community and we have always lived within our means. Unlike most other families we knew, we travelled little ( other than to see family) when our kids were young. Didnt buy expensive clothing. We were one of two families on our street that did not hire a cleaning lady ( almost all SAHMs) or lawn service. Kept the cars for years. We didn’t eat out much.Our furniture is old and could use replacing. We were fortunate that H has a well paying job and we always saved a lot. We do spend somewhat more on travel and have a cleaner now that I work full time. </p>
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<p>COMPLETELY agree. So many kids these days don’t ever have to endure “crappy”–just look at all the fancy dorms and private student housing being built on many college campuses. Most entry-level jobs do not pay enough for young people to afford apartments with granite countertops and heated garages.</p>
<p>Also (and I know this is going to make me sound old) how many of us have memorable and amusing stories about our awful first cars?</p>
<p>^^^ Our first car was DH’s Ford…came over the top of a bridge, car stalled and hiccuped and died, and when I looked in the mirror, a transit Bus was trying to dodge me. Clipped the rearview passenger’s mirror off. Also coming around a cloverleaf, the door latch released and the driver’s door opened. I still remember looking down at the pavement as I leaned out to grab it and pull it shut. Annnd…it died its final time in the middle of a busy intersection. No cellphones… I sat on the curb and cried until I felt someone sit down next to me. A nice policeman hugged me and says “Your day really isn’t going well, is it” and called a towtruck. They weren’t allowed to put me in the truck, so I had to walk the 10 blocks or so to the garage. It took our month’s pay to get it fixed enough to drive it home. </p>
<p>What’s that Chinese curse? “May you receive everything you wish for” ? </p>
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I didn’t come from old money, everything I have is earned the old fashion way. My kids like the life style they are accustom to and also understand that I will not be paying for it once they are on their own. They are very motivated to maintain the life style they have now. Don’t get me wrong, they are not looking to marry rich or take an easy way out, they know they are going to have to work hard, just like I have, to live the way they want.</p>
<p>Some of our best memories came from those crappy apt/car/job days. But we didn’t see ourselves as suffering. </p>
<p>Re: crappy housing/cars: I used to rate my s’s apts/houses with what I called the “could I live here?” criterion. Most passed, but several did not.</p>
<p>My first car was a Plymouth Satellite. Used to stall out as I was pulling onto a major road. Not good.</p>
<p>But would most upper middle class people let their kids live like that? In a scuzzy apartment with a broken down car and back then, no insurance. I’m not so sure.</p>
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<p>My standard joke way back when was, “Of course I have AAA. I need it to have them tow me to the grocery store. And then I need them to tow me home.” </p>
<p>I think lifestyle is very much a “when in Rome” kind of thing. The lifestyles of the majority in your social circle have a greater influence than you’d think. Much of that influence happens over time sometimes without you even realizing it. So a new immigrant family that just recently joined the rank of upper middle class may treat money differently than the upper middle class people who themselves grew up in a upper middle class family. You may see a Chinese immigrant family and an Indian immigrant family in similar SES have quite different lifestyles. For kids who have their own circles (mostly in schools), their sense of self esteem, like it or not, partially develops surrounding how similar or dissimilar they feel they are with their peers. Families therefore are trying hard not to make their kids the “odd balls” in their environment. I’m saying this to point out that lifestyle is more than what you believe in or how self-disciplined you can be. It’s complicated. Back in graduate school when both my spouse and I were living off graduate assistantships, we “fantasied” how well off we would be if we could ever double our income. It’s safe to say that we have surpassed that goal by some distance but strangely 
I just don’t feel that rich! </p>
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No insurance? We always had insurance. No.Matter.What.
And we’ve had the age-old discussion of what constitutes “upper middle class”, and I have no idea if I fit into that or not. But no matter. When my kids found off campus housing in college, I didnt get a say in where they chose. And younger s chose to continue to live like a starving student for a year or 2 out of school. He lived with grad students and other young professionals. Still looked pretty rough around the edges.</p>
<p>“For kids who have their own circles (mostly in schools), their sense of self esteem, like it or not, partially develops surrounding how similar or dissimilar they feel they are with their peers. Families therefore are trying hard not to make their kids the “odd balls” in their environment.”</p>
<p>To be honest, then, I was glad that our kids were at the upper end within their school environment, so they did have clothing, etc. that was in the range of what their peers had. </p>
<p>It’s one thing to be a high school kid comparing what he has / doesn’t have to kids in his high school. It’s quite another thing to be an adult comparing what you have / don’t have with your neighbors. I think it’s kind of a weakness to care what the neighbors think about pretty much anything. Couldn’t care less if my neighbors drive fancier cars or vacation nicer than I do. For that matter, I really don’t care if they think we’re stupid for spending the $ we do on our kids’ education. The whole point is that I’m a grownup, and thus don’t think like a high school kid any more. </p>
<p>“They are very motivated to maintain the life style they have now. Don’t get me wrong, they are not looking to marry rich or take an easy way out, they know they are going to have to work hard, just like I have, to live the way they want.”</p>
<p>Yep. That’s all the motivation they need. It will serve them well. </p>
<p>I agree with everything Sue22 said, except the part about the crappy car. Maybe it’s selfish on my part, but I don’t want to worry about my D breaking down on the highway at night. We bought her a brand-new nice (though not opulent) car when she was 17. She still has it at at 22. H makes sure it has regular oil changes, just bought new tires. We know it’s been reliable and well maintained, so I’m comfortable with her driving it for several years. I would never have put her in a used clunker. My 20 yr old S has never asked or really needed a car, and he’s fine borrowing mine when he’s home and needs a car. When that changes, we’ll buy a new car for him as well. H and I have top of the line luxury cars, and H has an exotic sports car. We paid cash for them and will keep them for 5-10 years (H keeps his longer than I do). If we couldn’t afford to do so, we wouldn’t. I spend a lot of time driving, and I really appreciate and enjoy my lovely car, so for me it’s a luxury that is worth it…I do cut corners in other places. I clean my own house - I do it better than anyone else and it’s good exercise.</p>
<p>" I would never have put her in a used clunker."</p>
<p>I agree. But, my parents didn’t think like this, at all. They didn’t put me in my 500-dollar clunker. I went to a used car dealership and bought the thing all by myself. It lasted for years, btw. But, I’m pretty sure it was unsafe and it was uninsured because that was not required in my state back then. Kids are not growing up as quickly as they did in the olden days. </p>
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<p>I basically agree with that except the crappy car bit. Our kids have to drive a great deal. D2 lives about 6 hours away and travels through a bunch of completely secluded areas to get home. No way she is driving a crappy car. We bought both girls newish cars. Nothing fancy or brand conscious, but good quality and very dependable. </p>
<p>Our girls are like Oldfort’s. We made very sure that they knew how incredibly blessed they were to have the opportunities, the home, the experiences they’ve had. Both express their gratitude frequently. Both knew they could go to the college of their choice once accepted, and both chose publics, though D1’s was OOS. Both got some merit money and we felt like we got a raise comparative to their private schools before that. D1 is frugal to a fault and D2 has ambitions to work in a career in which she can afford to have the lifestyle she desires rather than betting on marrying someone to provide it for her. Both girls are aware that the money her father and I have came not from our families but from working really hard, and in DH’s case, being really good at a career which has a very high salary potential (but is 100% commission). Both know that I worked very hard in my career, found it very fulfilling, but made very little.</p>
<p>I think it’s what you teach your kids about what you have or don’t have that makes the biggest impression. I count modeling behaviors as teaching as well.</p>
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<p>These days, at any price level (adjusted for inflation), cars are much better than they used to be. In the US, most or all cars in the 1970s (even expensive ones) were poor quality compared to even the cheapest cars from the last several years.</p>
<p>I wa just going to say essentially the same thing, ucb. There are lots of good, “cheap” cars now with better safety and reliability ratings than what we had back in the olden days. So maybe “crappy” isn’t the right word. “Depreciated and dinged-up” might be a better description. </p>