Consolation, my uncle died this past summer, after living 7 years in a succession of nursing homes; he had alzheimer’s. Physically, he was pretty healthy until the end… but his mind just wasn’t there. His LTC policy paid for the care for 5 years, and then ran out – so for the last 2 years the money had to be paid by my uncle – my dad said it was costing $5000/month. (I didn’t ask for details, that could have been $5000 over and above other available funds, such as my uncle’s social security).</p>
<p>It probably is true that more often than not, insurance companies don’t have to pay out – that’s how insurance works, and what keeps premiums down. I mean… I keep paying for car insurance even though I never get into serious accidents and hope I never will; I keep paying for home insurance even though my house has never caught fire and I hope it never does. I hope for my own sake that I don’t have to use my LTC policy either… but the problem is that if I do, the financial burden will fall on my kids. I don’t want that to happen, so I chose to buy insurance to protect against that risk.</p>
<p>Calmon, in my state Medicaid would have paid for SNF after assets gone. I took out the LTC policy so that most of my assets would be protected.At least half of the SNFs in my area will accept Medicaid, especialy if one has been living there as full pay for a year already. There are no shortages of Medicaid beds, but your choices limited. Medicaid allows the spouse to keep one home (even if ocean front condo) and a car, but limited money. If there is no spouse, these assets must be sold to pay for care. </p>
<p>There is a major difference in ALFs, with a wide range of price. Very difficult to find one that accepts Medicaid. Often, apartments will have 2 bedrooms, 1 bath and small kitchen. The less expensive places will save money on entertainment (less parties, side trip, etc) & food, but staff in any place paid the same, and care about the same.</p>
<p>I too have the John Hancock plan, like Dadinator and MomLive. It includes home health. I would have preferred that it didn’t, but my agent says all plans include that now.</p>
<p>One criteria I used was to meet with the D.O.N. (head nurse). Some have been at the facility for 8 years plus, and have won awards. They run a tight ship.</p>
<p>I work in insurance but don’t specifically deal with LTC. What I can say is that you should call up a LTC Agent from the companies you are looking into and have them “build” a policy for you. I know the LTC Agents at my work ask you a bunch of qualifying monetary questions to see if a LTC policy is even right for you - meaning if you have no assets, then the Medicaid option might be better for you. They also have figures on what daily care costs in SNF’s, ALF’s, etc. They can adjust different benefits and tailor a plan to your liking (kind of like auto insurance) and they can tell you how the premium adjusts as they are doing so.</p>
<p>Because we have Federal pensions that will last our life times we bought LTC insurance that was limited to X amount per day. We did that to supplement the pensions. My Dad died a few days before his money ran out. I don’t want to impose that worry on my child.</p>
<p>We got LTC insurance through USAA last year. One of the things we did to keep premiums affordable was to get a “shared care” rider for my husband and myself. We got insurance for 3 years for each of us–but this could be combined so that if one of us needed it, he/she could get up to 6 years of care. I don’t think it bumped the cost up very much to get the rider. Since the average person needs LTC for 4 years or less, we thought this would help us with flexibility while keeping premiums low. We were 56 and 49 when we got the coverage. We hope use the benefit for in-home care, and I believe we also got it with a weekly or monthly maximum, rather than daily, for more flexibility. It also allows us to use our own caregivers or even family care, I think…</p>
<p>I have just been starting to think about this. Does anyone mind sharing what their monthly premium is, and at about what age they started paying? I have absolutely no idea what to expect…</p>
<p>MomOf3, thank you for sharing your scenario. It’s extremely relevant to us as DH and I are exactly the same ages as you two are now. USAA was encouraging us to take out a shared plan as well, but we found that we could each get five years of coverage for the same annual price as six years shared between us, including the addition of a 10-year survivor option, so we’re leaning in the direction of “souped up” individual plans.</p>
<p>Great thread. I have been thinking about just this topic since I recently had to put my mom into long term care after a series of unsuccessful rehab stints. She had sold her house ten years ago and we used the proceeds to upgrade to a house where she could live with us. So most of her assets were already distributed.</p>
<p>The facility she is at will accept Medicaid once her savings run out, and we are happy with the facility. I don’t expect it to be a long term situation :(</p>
<p>In our case, I would like to have insurance in place to take care of myself and/or H; I don’t necessarily want to divest myself of my major assets early (though I suppose there is the trust route) and I do not want to live with my children.</p>
<p>I don’t think my employer offers this option, so I thank the previous posters for the good suggestions. We are at the age where we need to do it soon, before insurability becomes an issue.</p>
<p>I just got a notice that John Hancock is requesting a material rate increase (not sure if it’s nationwide or state specific). I was told when I signed up for this via my employer 3 years ago that John Hancock had never raised their rates. So much for that. :(</p>
<p>Actually, you are probably more likely to need home health care than long-term nursing home care.</p>
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<p>I pay about $850 a year ($70 a month) and have a $300 daily maximum benefit (includes nursing home or home health). I also have a $548,000 lifetime maximum benefit. They just sent me some that offered me another $45 daily maximum benefit for $15 a month and a bump-up to a max lifetime benefit of $630,000. I’m not going to take it.</p>
<p>its not that simple.
Here are some of the variables:
Health, single vs shared, qualification deductible (actual nursing home or other qualification), inflation coverage, time in deductible, reset, age of purchase, your sex and of partner, state, your level of exercise, height/weight, diabetes may disqualify but cancer may not, your income and savings, strength of insurer, insurer’s commitment level.</p>
<p>Recent article in WSJ, early Nov 2010, describing many insurers are leaving the business and a few have been firms closed because of LTC. The insurers are discovering that those people who purchase LTC, tend to keep LTC, even with increased premiums, Investments in bonds are very low and far below the increasing cost of facility or home care. </p>
<p>The alternative is MedicAid which is administered at the State level and partially funded by the State. Feds pick up the remainder by some formula. Any body got a State that doesn’t have a budget problem?</p>
<p>this is our second increase in premiums since our purchase 8 years ago.
I got the notice of increase today, the warning notice 4 months ago.</p>
<p>That’s what is worrying me. …with the population aging and health care costs sky-rocketing, a lot of insurers will find it’s not as profitable as they thought and will pull out.</p>
<p>I got my insurance through my employer as a guaranteed issue if you elected it when you were hired, so I didn’t have to answer any questions. The guaranteed issue was only for the employee, not spouses. My husband developed a condition at 40 that precludes him from ever getting LTC insurance. That’s part of what spurred me to get the insurance. It’s a little scary to develop a degenerative disease and realize you will never again qualify for life insurance, LTC insurance and individual health insurance.</p>
<p>MomLive:
When we purchased, there were many big insurance firms openly advertising and the State employee’s union was pushing a particular insurance co. Low premiums = low quality clients = high incidence for care. JIMO.</p>
<p>in the early 2000’s, W’s Administration was warning of the upcoming Medicare/MedicAid problems. I’d rather take my chances in having insurance than rely on the government or our single child and his, maybe, future spouse.</p>
<p>Reviving this thread as we have been going round and round with this topic and want to make a decision. The John Hancock plan did have a price increase and a change to aspects of their benefit plans last yer, so we missed that boat. We are still considering it, as it is currently what USAA offers. We are also looking at Berkshire/Guardian, but they are pulling out of the business at the end of the year. We looked at Genworth but its ratings have gone up and down…</p>
<p>We danced around between the daily vs monthly rate, and went back from the monthly to the daily. I figured for the few days there might be an overage (time and a half for holidays) it might not be worth the cost differential. Thoughts? Wil the monthly plan pay for the whold month even if you dont have care for the whole month? </p>
<p>Recommendations for specific carriers? Pros/cons?
Thanks</p>
<p>Jym626, thanks for reviving this thread. LTC insurance has been the #1 topic of conversation in our house for the past several months - ever since my Dad’s Parkinsons has progressed to the point where he needs extensive in-home care. Thankfully, he remembered that he had purchased LTC coverage about 15 years ago. This has made H & I realize that we need to look into this for ourselves.</p>
<p>Last week, we sat down with an agent (via USAA) who explained the 2 policies they offer (Hancock and Genworth). We’re going for the Hancock because it seems to offer more flexibility. He strongly suggested we get the shared coverage rider, inflation adjustment, daily rate, and reduction of elimination period. </p>
<p>He also said most of his clients apply in their early 50s (we’re 55/56). It used to be that only 15% were rejected for health reasons; now its up to 30%. Sure hope we don’t get disqualified. </p>
<p>After seeing how much help my father needs, we’re just trying to keep our health/financial burdens away from our children.</p>
<p>Mansfield – I’ve heard that the absolute easiest LTC sales are to kids who’ve had to deal with the care costs of elderly parents. I’m not surprised. It has certainly been an education for us.</p>
<p>Agreed. Unless you’ve been through the financial and emotional turmoil of eldercare, its easy to think “this will never happen to me.” As the agent explained to us, LTC is about caring, not curing. Sure, there’s always the chance that we could pay into these policies, get very sick, and never be able to use the policy because we can still perform the activities of daily living. However, when I see my Dad, who can no longer dress, bath, toilet, or walk unaided, I am very grateful that he can afford to pay a home health worker to assist him.</p>
<p>In a lot of ways it is a crapshoot. As several people have mentioned, you could spend a lot of money on a LTC policy and never use it. Lots of people die without ever going into a facility. I think I’d rather set up my finances in such a way that (if necessary) we spend our assets on our last care needs until the assets are gone, and then go on Medicaid if it comes to that. There are good places that will keep you on as a Medicaid patient, if you have been a full pay patient for at least a year.</p>
<p>Another option is going outside the “system” to hire someone privately to do home care. When you go through an agency, a lot of overhead gets skimmed off before the worker gets their paycheck, so your dollar can go farther outside the system. Yes, I know this is all a gamble, but it is all a gamble anyway. </p>
<p>I’m hoping I drop over dead in my garden, like the Godfather. lol</p>