<p>MommaJ: What if a teacher has nothing positive to say about a student?</p>
<p>poetgrl – I hear ya. But that to me explains a lottery teacher who is limiting his letter writing. He apparently has his reasons.</p>
<p>Yep. He had his reasons. And, then, he’s going to say the parent’s DON’T have their reasons when they no longer support the public unions. But, the parents will have their reasons, too.</p>
<p>I actually see this as an administrative failing. The administration should set a policy about Rec’s and have it be a part of the job description. Then, no discretion, no upset for the taxpayers.</p>
<p>A template form letter into which specific examples of the excellence (highest class test grade, superb contribution to class discussion etc) of the recommended student is one way to address volume for teachers. Double-triple checking for accuracy of name, statements, and adding a line of personal funny or astute recognition would be easy. </p>
<p>Change the font to cursive, perhaps italicize that which you want emphasized or the name, and voila: personalized, specific comments wrapped up into a nice package from one’s memory notes.</p>
<p>(I used my own designed medical template computer note to write 25 or more patients’ records per day and became very comfortable and efficient at the process.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’d like somebody to find a teacher’s contract that actually says writing letters of recommendation are a requirement or job responsibility…</p>
<p>In post # 45 hops…scout wrote:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In post # 43, I wrote:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If highschools do not provide their students with recomendations, then those kids will not go to the colleges they want, which will lead to all sorts of problems. Perhaps a high school could simply say “We do not provide recs for our students” and see how well the colleges reacted to their students come acceptance time. Maybe it wouldn’t even matter.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>poetgrl, you must live in one of those well-funded districts. There is no one (teacher) in my district that makes close to $100,000 even if they have worked in the district for 30 years! Obviously, in this current economy, it is difficult for teachers who are 40 and 50 year olds to change professions. Believe me, otherwise they would!</p>
<p>Where I work, many many parent drop off their students from their Mercedes/Lexus sedans, yet they refuse to pass a measly $78 a year parcel tax to fund the schools. Our district is adjacent to districts that have foundations/PTAs that fund the district an additional 2 or 3 million dollars every year. What do you think the teachers and administrators think about the parent community?</p>
<p>Yes, I live in one of those insanely high property tax regions where the schools are very highly funded, and before this, the same, only also, insanely competitive parents. </p>
<p>we send our kids to private school. We’ve never found the public schools worked very well in terms of the “individual,” and I don’t mind paying the taxes, and I always vote yes on the referendums, though for the first time, this year, one failed. (I’ve never actually seen that before.) Even here people are beginning to be fatigued by the constantly rising costs for less and less.</p>
<p>Just a fact.
Given that I vote yes on every referendum and donate to all the PTO fundraisers and don’t even use the services at the school? If they think poorly of me? There’s hardly a thing I could do to change it. Nor would it matter to me.</p>
<p>poetgrl: If you are voting for all school taxes, donating to the school fundraisers, and then not even availing yourself of the public schools, WE LOVE YOU!</p>
<p>However, in California, there is a large contingent of upper-middle class parents that will not vote for parcel taxes, will not donate to the PTA, yet will send all of their children to the public schools (and drop them off in their Mercedes/Lexus, and take them out of school for wonderful vacations). And, these same parents will complain LOUDLY if they feel that anything doesn’t work perfectly for THEIR child. It is these parents, not you Poetgrl, that teachers/administrators are fed up with in California.</p>
<p>There are great teachers around here, to be honest. And everybody thinks so. </p>
<p>And, there are policies in terms of letters of recommendation and college essays and all sorts of things, at the public schools. Every kids essays are looked at by the teachers, and it is just a part of the curriculum, and the teachers write letters, and if a teacher can’t write a letter for a student, the teacher assists the student in finding another teacher who can. </p>
<p>But, these are all a part of the system, here. There’s a big meeting about it. Everything starts rolling mid-junior year, in terms of getting all the kids set with letter writers and essay readers and they hit the ground running with it in the fall. </p>
<p>I think when you find a situation where teachers are overworked, what you really have is probably a bunch of administrators sitting in offices and not doing much to make it all work. I tend to place the blame for it all squarely on the shoulders of the usually very highly compensated adminstations, personally. JMO.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You are right, poetgrl. In California, there are many many small districts (with 5-7 schools total) which all have superintendents making $175,000+ and other business officials making excellent 6 figure salaries. This is not sustainable and is one of the reasons that the schools and teachers are being squeezed so hard.</p>
<p>Yep. I think that is very true.</p>
<p>The teachers around here ARE dong a lot to assist the students, but the teachers are working within a system which is fully functioning and overseen by the administration, which has set up a very workable set of circumstances.</p>
<p>So, if your kid doesn’t get his/her essay to the reader by X date (which is much earlier than they might want to have it done), it doesn’t get read. If your kid doesn’t get his/her CV to the rec writer by X date, end of juniror year, in fact, it doesn’t get written. But, everybody has it in writing. The parents, the kids, the teachers, so the system runs smoothly. The system is taken care of so that the teachers don’t have to think about that end of it and can do their jobs. The whole application process is done for the whole class senior year somewhere in October or November, and that’s that.</p>
<p>But, if a teacher has to reinvent that wheel with each class every year, with no support? I just don’t see how it could be done. JMO</p>
<p>Let’s see, 200 students and say 10 teachers. That means each teacher would have 40 letters of recommendation, if this is split up exactly, since each student needs up to 2 letter. But really less than that, because in high school, a number of those kids are going to get recs from teacher who are not primarily from their year. But still a lot of letters to write if you are a great teacher that a lot of kids want for recs. I agree it can be a lot and it’s a big part of the job. </p>
<p>All of the schools that my kids have attended have the teachers only write one rec per student, so it doesn’t really matter how many applications a student has. They never bother to fill in the questionaires–a see attached is what is written, and a narrative attachment goes with the rec page or is just sent electronically. Still a lot of work, but part of the job. Just like reading 100 essays a week and correcting them is part of an English teacher’s job. Or reading proof after proof and the work on math problems when correcting them is a math teacher’s job. </p>
<p>One of the benefits of the private schools where my kids went was there was none of this complaining. Teachers were honored and offered to write recs. Don’t know why, but that was the way it worked. And the juniors were asked to choose their teachers in the spring, so that the teachers could work on the essays. It was a painless process and one where the kids felt no issues in asking a teacher for a rec.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Same for my kids. I think it has something to do with the fact that no teacher taught more than 60 kids per semester nor more than 2 classes per day. The teachers also had quite a bit of time off (other than their daily prep time) to write such letters.</p>
<p>Contrast this with teachers who have 160-180 students and are given no extra time to write letters.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is why I always vote for the referendums. It’s an impossible task.</p>
<p>But, this is why it is an administrative issue. It needs to be factored into the system as a part of the system. The application process has arguably become way too complicated. But, as long as this is what we are dealing with, and the high schools aren’t yet willing to tell the colleges that they are asking too much of them (because it is not the students asking for all of this but the colleges.), then the adminstration needs to come up with a system that will work. That’s why they are paid all that money. To administrate.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t believe this is a realistic assumption. Contrary to what colleges want you to believe, it is simply not that level of hands-on attention. </p>
<p>Harvard had 35,000 applications, NYU 44,000, Princeton 27,000, Northwestern 30,000…and so on. No way they are tracking the content and tone of 105,000, 81,000 or 132,000 letters (etc), from a potential 1.4 million highschool teachers at the 27,000 highschools.</p>
<p>I still find this completely unacceptable. HS teachers who teach Juniors and Seniors know this is part of their job. Every HS teacher I know has at least one full prep hour every day. Many HS teachers teach one or two classes a few times a day, so actually they are only writing lesson plans for 2 classes. For example, the teacher might teach AP Calc BC and AP Stats a few sections of each. Offering six letters in a lottery is just wrong. That teacher’s attitude is not what is best for students. Most of the schools on the common app my D applied to request two teachers plus a counselor. The guy is wrong and needs to be called on the carpet. It is in a schools best interest to have their students accepted at selective colleges. Teachers typically work 180 days a year. That gives them 185 days off. The students also leave at 3:00 in our state. I am a teacher, writing letters is part of the job. See administration immediately! It is not difficult to create a template and customize it for individual students. Students should provide a checklist and resume to the teacher. Rec letters are not done on typewriters any longer. This guy gives teachers a bad name.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>mommidwest: I am curious. You say you are a teacher. What grade do you teach and how many students do you have? My guess is that you are not a HS teacher of a core subject with a large caseload.</p>
<p>Prepping for 2 different classes every day with a caseload of 180 students every day (even with a prep period) is pretty challenging. Not a lot of time for recommendation letters!</p>
<p>I’m a high school teacher and I have 4 preps (different classes taught daily). I also taught semester classes with about 160 students per semester… that is 300-330 students per year. My classes are also Junior/Senior level classes. Last year I wrote about 50-60 letters and although it was an honor to be asked, it was also a pain in the rear… most kids ask 4-5 days before the letter is due. I told about 10 kids that I would not write a letter for them for various reasons… that is my prerogative. I agree that the teacher in question should write more letters but contrary to opinions by most on this thread, it is NOT part of our job… nor should it be just because we have parents who don’t ever want their kids to do without. </p>
<p>And don’t worry, if your child doesn’t get the letter they want, I promise that life will not end. If they are deserving and accomplished, they will get into a great school. I personally asked my S to ask 5 teachers… 4 wrote letters and one never got around to it. I guess she just didn’t want to do it… too tired, too lazy, too mad at the world… I don’t know or care. I also told him to give each a $5 pin drive. They then placed a copy on the drive and every time my S needed a letter for a different school, he changed the school name, printed a copy and gave it to them to read and sign along with a stamped envelope. Every single one agreed and it also gave him an opportunity to read the letters before they sent them off. He even asked one teacher to add a line about a project he had worked on. </p>
<p>My advice is for the parent to call the teacher and explain what their recommendation would mean to my S/D. Ask for a change in heart and agree not to let anyone know. If they change their mind, then great – if not, then ask another teacher. The mistake many parents make is to assume that the only teachers that matter is their high school teachers. S asked one of his 5th grade teachers. She felt so honored to be asked that she wrote an incredible letter – I’m sure she doesn’t get asked much because of the grade she teaches and her letter showed how she had followed his progress throughout his education. It also gave an early insight into his leadership skills and development. What a blessing. </p>
<p>Also gotta say that it is not administration’s job to tell a teacher that they must write a recommendation letter. What if it is not a good letter, what then? Letters from templates are also not as effective. It also doesn’t matter how much we work, how many days off we get, what you pay in taxes, or whether a teacher is a high school teacher or not. Most teachers are up to their eye balls in work at the end of the year and these letters are not OUR primary concern. Our concern is preparing students for AP testing, state assessments, grades, helping struggling students, tutoring, and fulfilling our daily duties. But I do realize one thing… MOST parents (not all) will never agree that their S or D may not be as deserving as the parent thinks. It doesn’t matter what you tell them.</p>
<p>It’s perfectly reasonable for teachers to limit LOR’s to those students they feel they can truly recommend and to insist that all LOR requests be submitted by a date that will permit them to be handled without undue haste or pressure. It’s completely unreasonable for a teacher to run a lottery as described by the OP. As to the allegation that it’s not part of the job, I guess you can argue the semantics all day, but I know in our school system if a teacher ever flatly refused to write any LOR’s, it would be a job-ending moment, and rightly so.</p>